Using phone plans in routers

[tetranz]

Hi all

I'm setting up cellular data in an RV. I have a Pepwave MAX BR1 MK2 router which is working on a $120 per month AT&T plan from one of the many somewhat anonymous resellers. It's working okay but I need some redundancy because my partner and I both work remotely and I don't want to find ourselves without a connection. We use lots of data. 600 GB per month on our home fiber this month but a lot of that is streaming HD which I'm sure we can restrain ourselves and get that down a lot. I'd hope to keep it below 250 GB. The Pepwave can take two SIMs.

I'm well aware that the perfect plan does not exist. That would be "unlimited" data at an affordable price without breaking carrier terms and conditions. I guess the new rural internet plan from Verizon in a few limited locations comes close.

I have several questions that I'd appreciate any thoughts on.

I'm thinking of getting a T-Mobile plan. Maybe the "Unlimited Plus" prepay https://prepaid.t-mobile.com/prepaid-plans.

I'm also looking at the "Unlimited Data Plus" prepay from AT&T https://www.att.com/prepaid/ as a cheaper alternative to the plan I have now. For all I know it might be the same plan.

I hear lots of reports of people using these sorts of plans in routers. Sorry if this is a silly question but can I confirm my understanding of how people use these in routers.

You need to sign up on these with a phone right? I don't need another phone but I'd need to find a compatible phone, get the account signed up and then move the SIM to the router and hope for the best.

Both those plans are "may notice slower speed after you go over the limit" kind of words. So people continue to use it well over those limits (50 GB for T-Mobile, 22 GB AT&T) and results will vary but it seems to generally work. It's obviously breaking the terms and conditions using a phone plan in a router but ... people mostly seem to get away with it.

Is that a roughly accurate description for how most people are using lots of data on routers?

I should probably start separate threads for my other questions.

[Viper67857]

That's the gist of it... Deprioritization over xxGB doesn't usually mean much if you're not in a high population density area so that the towers aren't congested. I tend to go over 2TB with a 100GB post-paid phone plan without noticeable drops in speed. As always, though, YMMV.

[tetranz]

Thanks. Here's another silly question. The only phone I have right now is an old iPhone 6s. Until recently it was a line on a postpaid Verizon plan but I recently moved it to Visible.

Assuming it's not locked to Verizon, can I use that phone to signup and activate an AT&T prepaid plan and then put it back to Visible? I mean temporarily swap the Visible SIM for the AT&T SIM, activate, then put the AT&T SIM in the router and the Visible SIM back in the phone. Can I do that or do a really need a separate phone that I put aside and never actually use.

Visible is my other backup using WiFi as WAN to the Pepwave. I haven't had the courage to try putting the Visible SIM in the Pepwave. I know some people have had success with that but I don't know how dangerous it is in terms of getting the account canceled or (much worse) getting the Pepwave blacklisted.

[Viper67857]

Someone else will have to chime in on pre-paid activations. I've only ever been on post-paid. I'd assume sim-swapping in an unlocked phone would be fine, if that's even necessary with AT&T. They generally don't care what kind of device you're using. My sim came already provisioned so it went straight into the router.

[tetranz]

I see that cheap phones are easily available on eBay. I'll probably just get a used unlocked phone for activations. I probably should be somewhat careful buying used phones but some of the sellers have over 100K feedbacks with close to 100% satisfaction so they must be doing something right.

[MattB29]

Just a heads up. Verizon has to have certified your phone before they will allow it to be activated. Many old phones ( and some new ones) are not usable on Verizon due to this requirement.

[tetranz]

That's the gist of it... Deprioritization over xxGB doesn't usually mean much if you're not in a high population density area so that the towers aren't congested. I tend to go over 2TB with a 100GB post-paid phone plan without noticeable drops in speed. As always, though, YMMV.

What do you set your TTL to? Is 65 correct for AT&T and T-Mobile to make it look like phone data?

I'm reading this. I assume that's you elsewhere on that thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rural_Internet ... dium=web2x

[Viper67857]

AT&T doesn't care about ttl

[tetranz]

AT&T doesn't care about ttl

Okay. I don't doubt what you say but do you know how they distinguish between phone data and hotspot data? If you're using 2 TB then they're obviously seeing your data as phone data. Lots of people say it's the TTL but ... I don't know.

[Viper67857]

When you turn on the hotspot on your phone, the phone reports things differently. An LTE modem doesn't do that. A phone won't even do that with the right set of apps running. Some providers use other means of telling the difference, like the TTL. AT&T doesn't, at least not yet.

[LoveMeSomeCALTE]

AT&T doesn't care about ttl

True.

do you know how they distinguish between phone data and hotspot data?

APN, port, protocol and DNS.

YOu can bypass all of this via a VPN but that lands you on a special list.

To a select few users on a special list, the traffic is redirected through additional scrutiny before the line is deactivated. The scrutiny is not being done by AT&T to figure out whether the data is "true" phone data or not but to act as records to share during discovery phase of any lawsuits that may arise from account termination.

AT&T doesn't care about segmenting phone data.

They don't enforce phone data and hotspot data like the other two in that their "enforcements" are trivial to bypass.

They will happily let you use the data any way you want but if you exceed their $/GB threshold, they will log you meta information, boot you out, including blocking your IMEI if you're a repeat offender.

Some Tmobile resellers used to hold special "Come on to Tmobile if your device IMEI is blocked on AT&T" sales just because of this.

[Viper67857]

Afaik, AT&T has only ever killed pre-paid accounts, including mvno accounts. I've never heard of post-paid being shut down for usage. I'm not sure what agenda you're pushing with that $13/gb number you throw into every thread.

[LoveMeSomeCALTE]

I'm not sure what agenda you're pushing with that $13/gb number you throw into every thread.

My agenda is to inform the people here about ATT (mis)management and any information I hear about them so that the people here are protected from sudden, rapid account terminations that leave them without any practical internet connectivity.

ATT (mis)management allowed the standalone unlimited iPad line for $20 to be added to any line while it was only supposed to be added to an account if you were on a single line unlimited phone plan or, if on a multi-line unlimited plan with the max 10 lines already, the CSR could add it as a standalone plan.

I've never heard of post-paid being shut down for usage.

That's very much possible. Unless you work at ATT or resell lines, I wouldn't expect you to know the intricacies of ATT (mis)management.

Also, it's possible that while post-paid lines were not literally being shut down for usage, they were forcefully downgraded a tier where the line was no longer effective for home internet purposes.

Example: Due to mismanagement, people were adding Unlimited Plus standalone tablet lines for $20/mo without phone lines. Then AT&T downgraded the lines to Unlimited Choice but didn't cancel them.

I would rather have the lines downgraded to Unlimited Choice be cancelled instead because they no longer serve their expected purpose.

Details about both plans to help you decide: https://www.androidauthority.com/att-un ... hereafter).

[tetranz]

When you turn on the hotspot on your phone, the phone reports things differently. An LTE modem doesn't do that. A phone won't even do that with the right set of apps running. Some providers use other means of telling the difference, like the TTL. AT&T doesn't, at least not yet.

Sorry to go on about this but do you take any "precautions" with your router on AT&T?

Since starting this thread I have signed up for AT&T unlimited elite postpaid which I think is what you're using. I have the SIM but I've resisted the temptation to put it in the router because the cheap unlocked phone I bought on eBay is delayed in the mail.

It looks like when I activate online, I need to give an IMEI. Do you (or anyone else here) agree that it is best to activate with a compatible phone rather than give the router IMEI?

I realize that there are no exact answers here. I'm just gathering experiences from others and hopefully figure out how not to wave a big red flag. There's a reasonable chance we'll be able to keep this below 100 GB per month. It will be our official / important work related plan to use in the RV. We'll use a backup plan for streaming at night.

I can't seem to find it now but for what it's worth, I see comments on Reddit saying an account on AT&T will likely be shut down within an hour if it is running on a device other than the one it was activated with. That's obviously not your experience.

Off topic observation: It was my first time doing anything at att.com. It has to be the most awful, error prone website from a major company that I've seen in a long time.

[Viper67857]

My sim came already activated... I just popped it in and it worked. Never been in a phone.

[tetranz]

My sim came already activated... I just popped it in and it worked. Never been in a phone.

Yeah, I think I now have the same plan as you. I canceled the no-name "totally unlimited" reseller plan and got AT&T postpaid Unlimited Elite. Time will tell if that was a good move.

I guess my SIM was already activated too but I put it in a phone first before moving it to the router. It's working well but I'm going to try not to go crazy with the amount of data to hopefully stay off any radar.

[karmazman]

Sorry to ask so late, just found this thread.

I'm in the same situation, only I'm using Mint Mobile. I'm getting less than .04Mbs down and about 8.4Mbs up. Is there a setting I'm missing in my pep-wave? Any help would be amazing.

[mcol2512]

Yeah, I think I now have the same plan as you. I canceled the no-name "totally unlimited" reseller plan and got AT&T postpaid Unlimited Elite. Time will tell if that was a good move.

I guess my SIM was already activated too but I put it in a phone first before moving it to the router. It's working well but I'm going to try not to go crazy with the amount of data to hopefully stay off any radar.

Hey Tetranz...wanted to follow up with how this is working for you so far? I am considering doing the same thing, so any suggestions you could make would be greatly appreciated. To summarize, your setup is:
[*]AT&T Unlimited Elite Postpaid Plan
[*]Verizon Visible
[*]Both SIMs in a Pepwave MAX BR1 MK2 router
[*]No TTL changes necessary for AT&T (not sure if you mentioned if you did anything for the Visible)

Did I miss anything?

[mcol2512]

Yeah, I think I now have the same plan as you. I canceled the no-name "totally unlimited" reseller plan and got AT&T postpaid Unlimited Elite. Time will tell if that was a good move.

I guess my SIM was already activated too but I put it in a phone first before moving it to the router. It's working well but I'm going to try not to go crazy with the amount of data to hopefully stay off any radar.

Out of curiosity, why did you go with the more expensive AT&T postpaid plan instead of the $20 postpaid iPad plan? https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2232

[tetranz]

Hey Tetranz...wanted to follow up with how this is working for you so far? I am considering doing the same thing, so any suggestions you could make would be greatly appreciated. To summarize, your setup is:
[*]AT&T Unlimited Elite Postpaid Plan
[*]Verizon Visible
[*]Both SIMs in a Pepwave MAX BR1 MK2 router
[*]No TTL changes necessary for AT&T (not sure if you mentioned if you did anything for the Visible)

Did I miss anything?

Sorry, I missed this a month or so ago. I've been through multiple variations and experiments since then. For a cross country trip in an RV we basically had what you describe except the second SIM was T-Mobile Magenta. I think it was $50 per month for us oldies over 55. We've been staying at a relative's house for the last few months and I've had plenty of time to mess around with this stuff. I have Visible in my phone but have tested it in the Pepwave and it works well.

Both the AT&T and T-Mobile plans worked well in the Pepwave but I cancelled them both because it wasn't using them enough for a while and got a little nervous when I heard stories of IMEI being blacklisted etc. I know people laugh about that concern here but so be it.

Then I started playing around with tethering to phones https://databurst.medium.com/running-ea ... 04a2bc9447 thinking that would be a safer way to go.

Now I have a reseller plan in the Pepwave which gives me 400 GB per month for $79 on AT&T.

I also have the $20 AT&T tablet plan in an Android tablet as a backup. I use the same Raspberry Pi, EasyTether, WireGuard setup linked to above to get around the recent 10 GB hotspot limit. That works very well but of course can't be connected to an external antenna.

I went for the more expensive phone plan at the time rather than the tablet plan because anecdotal reports suggest that the phone plans are reasonably safe without any "magic" or whatever. I don't know if that's true or not. If the reseller plan stops working or they raise the price I will probably go back to a phone plan rather than put the tablet plan in the Pepwave. Surely they'll go after $20 abusers before those paying $80

[jayfar]

I have Visible in my phone but have tested it in the Pepwave and it works well.

I recently got setup with Visible and it works great in my phone. I then tried it in the PepWave and it gets stuck on "obtaining ip address" for me. I tried my AT&T SIM in the PepWave and it worked perfect.

Was there anything you had to do custom/special for the Visible / Pepwave combo?

[Didneywhorl]

the pepwave is likely trying to use standard Verizon APNs, which is likely:

Code: Select all

vzwinternet

instead of Visibles APN:

Code: Select all

vsblinternet

I'm not sure where in the UI it would be, not familiar, but there should be a place you can force/override the APN.

The other issue you will have is you really need to set the TTL and HL to 64 in order to bypass the 5Mbps hotspot speed limit.

[jayfar]

The "vsblinternet" as the APN made it work for me. I also set the TTL as you recommended. Thanks!