DP727L15 - 15dBi 4G LTE Directional Antenna Review (Updated with comparisons)

[swwifty]

I recently purchased a pair of these antennas (https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... high-beam/) for my 4G project I've been working on. I couldn't find any good detailed reviews with these antennas, so I thought I'd share my experience with them. (I'll have a very detailed post coming with my entire setup, once I finish it, but that will probably be a least a month away. I've been doing this project in stages to test, and learn as much as I can). Below is a list of my current setup.

1. Raspberry PI 2 running latest version of GoldenOrb (2018 version).
2. External USB enclosure with a Sierra MC7455 modem, and 2, 3dbi Omni Antennas.

I've been doing extensive testing in a variety of locations with my setup to learn as much as I can. Additionally, to find out the optimum place to mount some external antennas. I don't have LOS to the tower, I would if it wasn't for trees, that being said I still opted for these antennas, cause I felt like they would make a big difference regardless. Anyways onto the results.

Speed test with the 3dbi Omnis (all these tests were done back to back).

Screen Shot 2018-09-28 at 2.22.22 PM.png

Signal Quality/Info of 3dbi omnis

Screen Shot 2018-09-28 at 1.13.40 PM.png

Speed test with 15dbi directional antennas.

Screen Shot 2018-09-28 at 1.45.46 PM.png

Signal Quality/Info of 15dbi directionals

Screen Shot 2018-09-28 at 1.20.33 PM.png

A picture of my test setup:

6482487224723712409.jpg

A screenshot of my link (only the 700mhz link (band 12), and not my CA ,which is on band 2, is depicted here) to the tower (curiosity of towercoverage.com)

Screen Shot 2018-09-28 at 4.53.12 PM.png

I thought the results were pretty interesting. The RSPQ signal is up about 6-8db in band 12 (not much difference in band 2), but the biggest impact I think is the signal to noise ratio (SNR). I think that boosted me into higher modulation rates, which you can clearly see in my download speeds. One thing to note is I calculated the exact degree the tower is from my house and aimed it with a compass, additionally I aimed for tilt as well (which was only 1 degree, but still). I have lots of more info on this, etc, but will do a extensive write up later once my project is near complete. Please feel free to ask any questions if you have any, and I hope this helped!

[JimHelms]

Wow, not bad considering the terrain.

How far away from the tower are you. I see a reference to "9 m" but uncertain what the number is.

[swwifty]

Wow, not bad considering the terrain.

How far away from the tower are you. I see a reference to "9 m" but uncertain what the number is.

I'm 5 miles from the tower. The tower height is 358ft AGL, and my UE is at about 30 feet AGL.

It is surprising given the terrain, the fresnel zone is cut off pretty good for 700mhz, and less for band 2 (1900mhz) but the signal strength in band 2 is much less due to the trees.

Interestingly, north of my property, it goes up to the top of a small mountain ( about 200 feet higher) I've tested my setup up there (only with the 3dbi omnis) and the signal strength is much better. I actually found a spot where theres literally 2 or 3 trees in the way, and then clear LOS. At that spot, band 2 is selected as the PCC and band 12 becomes the SCC. I was able to get 65mbps down there, and 30mbps up! I'm half way tempted to run a remote power setup up there, and put my antennas up there

Edit: attached a screenshot of my signal strength at the clear LOS location on my property.

Screen Shot 2018-09-15 at 3.40.03 PM.png

[ph34rful]

Nice results! Thanks for sharing. Do you happen to know what the speeds are with just one of the directional antenna? Are two matching antenna needed to see such a large improvement? Or can you get significant benefit with just one? I don't really understand how MIMO works.

[swwifty]

Nice results! Thanks for sharing. Do you happen to know what the speeds are with just one of the directional antenna? Are two matching antenna needed to see such a large improvement? Or can you get significant benefit with just one? I don't really understand how MIMO works.

I have not done any tests with just one antenna (whether the small omni antennas, or the big directional antennas). LTE uses MIMO as a integral part to get high bandwith transfer rates, I'm not even sure it will work with just one antenna (probably will, but haven't tested that).

If I was going to go to the trouble of setting up external antennas, I would be sure to setup two, to support MIMO. That being said, you can get antennas with MIMO built all into one physical enclosure (if you are looking for a more compact and visually appealing solution).

The link below is really good at explaining MIMO in LTE, but basically MIMO allows two separate datastreams at the same time to double your bandwith. Don't confuse this was diversity (Which allows for better signal reception with multiple antennas). Anyways, check out the link below, and it explains this much better than I just did.

http://www.sharetechnote.com/html/BasicProcedure_LTE_MIMO.html

Let me know if you have any questions, or that doesn't clear things up.

[ph34rful]

Thanks for the link that helped even though most of it was over my head. I guess I'm just curious how a two antenna setup like yours would compare to one of these:

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... rs-bundle/

Does having two antenna double the gain compared to a single? I'm thinking it's probably not that straightforward.

The antenna cost alone isn't so bad but where I would need to mount them requires a fair length of cable to be run and low loss cable is surprisingly pricey, particularly with two runs! Also, which tier did you buy from towercoverage.com to get the info you needed? I've had no success finding any tower info for my rural relative and wonder if this site would be helpful. I look forward to your full write up!

[swwifty]

Thanks for the link that helped even though most of it was over my head. I guess I'm just curious how a two antenna setup like yours would compare to one of these:

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/1700-2 ... l-antenna/

Does having two antenna double the gain compared to a single? I'm thinking it's probably not that straightforward.

The antenna cost alone isn't so bad but where I would need to mount them requires a fair length of cable to be run and low loss cable is surprisingly pricey, particularly with two runs! Also, which tier did you buy from towercoverage.com to get the info you needed? I've had no success finding any tower info for my rural relative and wonder if this site would be helpful. I look forward to your full write up!

Check out this video on MIMO, it's pretty good at explaining it (sorry it has an annonying monotone computer voice, lol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIl4ZQb-A70

The link you posted, is a MIMO antenna. Which means it actually has 2 antennas inside of that enclosure (which is what I was referring to earlier). My setup is also a MIMO setup, but I have to have two physically separate antennas, cause they aren't combined into one physical enclosure (hope that makes sense).

Selecting which antenna to get is highly dependent upon which provider (AT&T, Verizon, T-mobile, etc) you use. The reason for this is they use different frequencies (aka bands). The antenna you linked only works from 1700-2700mhz, the one I have works from 700-2700mhz (this covers all the possible bands for any carrier). You can look up what bands your carrier uses, but it's best to confirm what bands are coming in, in your area first before purchasing external antennas. I did this with my setup, because at first I only had some small omni-directional antennas (and I was able to look at my modem status and see, so I could pick the proper antenna).

I have the basic towercoverage plan, nothing fancy. Before you go and purchase that, I would first try Ubiquiti's calculator site. It's very easy to use, and very clear. That being said, it doesn't cover cell phone frequencies, but it will give you a pretty good idea on what terrain is in the way, etc. https://link.ubnt.com/

Yes, the cable runs are a problem for external setups like this. I've opted to actually mount my raspberry pi/modem outside very close to my antenna (in a water proof enclosure), so my cables will be very short. Then I'll have a ethernet connection coming back into the house (which can run up to 300feet, and is very cheap cable). I haven't gotten this far yet, but once I do I'll be posted a detailed summary and review of how I did it, to give others ideas, setups, etc.

[ph34rful]

Oh good point! I somehow missed the differing frequencies between the two antennas. I definitely see the incentive now to keep the antenna cables as short as possible. I initially had no clue why people were mounting equipment outside if they didn't have to haha.

I'm fortunate enough to have fiber at my home, but I built a relatively simple LTE setup for a rural relative that is unfortunately three hours away. It works better than the satellite internet they were paying for previously, but the speed seems to be somewhat inconsistent. They have pretty poor cell signal, right on the fringe of service I'd say. 15mbps is achievable on speed tests, but my relative reports Netflix goes in and out of HD so it must not be consistent. I've read 5mbps should generally be enough for streaming HD Netflix. That's really my only goal. I'm just trying to find the cheapest and easiest route to get there.

I'm going back at Thanksgiving and that's really my only opportunity to take new equipment (antenna) and tweak things. If it were my own setup I'd have the opportunity for actual experimentation. Even though it's better than what they had before I'm frustrated that it seems to be right on the edge of working consistently for HD streaming. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy an antenna and hope for the best.

Thanks for sharing your experience! The Ubiquiti site was helpful in demonstrating why their signal is so poor.

[swwifty]

Oh good point! I somehow missed the differing frequencies between the two antennas. I definitely see the incentive now to keep the antenna cables as short as possible. I initially had no clue why people were mounting equipment outside if they didn't have to haha.

I'm fortunate enough to have fiber at my home, but I built a relatively simple LTE setup for a rural relative that is unfortunately three hours away. It works better than the satellite internet they were paying for previously, but the speed seems to be somewhat inconsistent. They have pretty poor cell signal, right on the fringe of service I'd say. 15mbps is achievable on speed tests, but my relative reports Netflix goes in and out of HD so it must not be consistent. I've read 5mbps should generally be enough for streaming HD Netflix. That's really my only goal. I'm just trying to find the cheapest and easiest route to get there.

I'm going back at Thanksgiving and that's really my only opportunity to take new equipment (antenna) and tweak things. If it were my own setup I'd have the opportunity for actual experimentation. Even though it's better than what they had before I'm frustrated that it seems to be right on the edge of working consistently for HD streaming. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and buy an antenna and hope for the best.

Thanks for sharing your experience! The Ubiquiti site was helpful in demonstrating why their signal is so poor.

hehe, yeah I didn't get it at first, then I realized what everyone was up to

They are probably at the outer edge of the cell for sure. IMO, buying antennas that covers all LTE frequencies makes sense, cause if there is more than one provider in that area, you can easily switch, without having to swap hardware.

What setup are you using for them? do you have any idea what carrier they are using and what bands? I would recommend setting up some kind of way to login remotely, (check this site out: https://www.remot3.it/web/index.html) after your trip to visit. That could be really helpful in the future.

You mind sharing the link to the ubiquiti calculator for their location? Maybe I could offer some insights with that, if I could see it? Feel free to send it in a PM, if you don't feel comfortable posting it here.

[ph34rful]

hehe, yeah I didn't get it at first, then I realized what everyone was up to

They are probably at the outer edge of the cell for sure. IMO, buying antennas that covers all LTE frequencies makes sense, cause if there is more than one provider in that area, you can easily switch, without having to swap hardware.

What setup are you using for them? do you have any idea what carrier they are using and what bands? I would recommend setting up some kind of way to login remotely, (check this site out: https://www.remot3.it/web/index.html) after your trip to visit. That could be really helpful in the future.

You mind sharing the link to the ubiquiti calculator for their location? Maybe I could offer some insights with that, if I could see it? Feel free to send it in a PM, if you don't feel comfortable posting it here.

Ya I'll definitely go with a 700-2700mhz antenna. They're on AT&T. Although strangely enough when I was there band 30 seemed to be the only band that performed well at all. Which is counter intuitive since it's a higher frequency (2300mhz). Band 2,4,12 all performed at generally less than 3mbps where as band 30 seemed to be able to hit 15mbps on speedtests. Weird stuff. I was also troubleshooting signal dropouts at the time (I think they're resolved now) so I didn't have time to investigate optimizing cell signal etc. I'm going to try band locking to band 30 when I return and see if that helps things. I'd even consider buying a band 30 specific antenna if I could find one without a custom order. The house is kind of in a small valley up against woods so there is definitely no LOS and without actually knowing for sure I think the nearest tower is 3-4ish miles away.

The system is pretty basic although it took me a while to figure it all out at the time, Wireless Joint forum was not online then for some reason. I spent sooo many hours googling for answers. This forum would have made things so much easier! Anywho, it's the basic USB enclosure with a EM7455 in it and a TP-Link Archer router that I happened to already have laying around. Luckily, GoldenOrb 12-15 had just been released, so I was able to flash it. I bought the Netgear antenna not knowing any better because I was pretty sure the little ones that were included with the enclosure weren't going to be enough. https://www.amazon.com/Netgear-6000450- ... 00DN3J03O/

Unfortunately the Netgear antenna ended up not really being any better than those included with the enclosure and left me uninterested in further pursuing antennas at the time. My relative is a very basic PC user so it has worked well enough for their usage. I'd love to be able to get HD Netflix working consistently for them, but it may not happen with my inability to experiment due to the distance. I usually only see them a couple times a year, and they're not technologically adept, so whatever I do has to pretty much be set it and forget it. Certainly not ideal. Remote access would allow me to monitor signal conditions but I'm not sure how to set that up on the router without a static/public IP. We occasionally use TeamViewer if they need PC assistance. I'm only still thinking about how to make their connection better because I like making things work and it's gotten under my skin haha. I apologize for hijacking your thread!

[swwifty]

Ya I'll definitely go with a 700-2700mhz antenna. They're on AT&T. Although strangely enough when I was there band 30 seemed to be the only band that performed well at all. Which is counter intuitive since it's a higher frequency (2300mhz). Band 2,4,12 all performed at generally less than 3mbps where as band 30 seemed to be able to hit 15mbps on speedtests. Weird stuff. I was also troubleshooting signal dropouts at the time (I think they're resolved now) so I didn't have time to investigate optimizing cell signal etc. I'm going to try band locking to band 30 when I return and see if that helps things. I'd even consider buying a band 30 specific antenna if I could find one without a custom order. The house is kind of in a small valley up against woods so there is definitely no LOS and without actually knowing for sure I think the nearest tower is 3-4ish miles away.

The system is pretty basic although it took me a while to figure it all out at the time, Wireless Joint forum was not online then for some reason. I spent sooo many hours googling for answers. This forum would have made things so much easier! Anywho, it's the basic USB enclosure with a EM7455 in it and a TP-Link Archer router that I happened to already have laying around. Luckily, GoldenOrb 12-15 had just been released, so I was able to flash it. I bought the Netgear antenna not knowing any better because I was pretty sure the little ones that were included with the enclosure weren't going to be enough. https://www.amazon.com/Netgear-6000450- ... 00DN3J03O/

Unfortunately the Netgear antenna ended up not really being any better than those included with the enclosure and left me uninterested in further pursuing antennas at the time. My relative is a very basic PC user so it has worked well enough for their usage. I'd love to be able to get HD Netflix working consistently for them, but it may not happen with my inability to experiment due to the distance. I usually only see them a couple times a year, and they're not technologically adept, so whatever I do has to pretty much be set it and forget it. Certainly not ideal. Remote access would allow me to monitor signal conditions but I'm not sure how to set that up on the router without a static/public IP. We occasionally use TeamViewer if they need PC assistance. I'm only still thinking about how to make their connection better because I like making things work and it's gotten under my skin haha. I apologize for hijacking your thread!

No worries on the thread hijack. This is all good info. It's interesting that they'd be getting band 30 out there. I think a good quality antenna will make all the difference. That "remote it" link I shared, is a reverse proxy, you can run on the router. You wouldn't need a public IP, cause you use a tunnel to get to the router with it, I'd recommend checking it out more.

In other news, I ran some more tests with these antennas today, and had some interesting results. I'll share more in the AM, when I'm rested and can do a full detailed write up.

[swwifty]

Update: with some interesting info

Yesterday afternoon, I had some time to play around with these antennas some more, and discovered some interesting things. My goal for this time was to test a few things.

1. Check signal strength and speed again (as compared to my previous test).
2. Test both band12 and band2 independently by locking the modem to each separately, and comparing signal/speeds.

I first started with checking the signal strength.

Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 4.35.00 PM.png

To my surprise, band 2 had been selected as the primary, and band 12 was the secondary (when in my original test, B12 was primary, and B2 was secondary). I've actually seen this happen when I drove close to the tower (to confirm the tower I thought I was connecting to, was the same one), and I've seen this when I tested up near the top of my mountain (my property backs up to the top of a small mountain that is about 200 feet higher than my house).

I was actually hoping that these antennas would allow me to get good enough signal strength on B2 at my house, for that to be the primary. My reasoning for this is B2 has 20mhz of bandwith, but because B2 is at around 1900mhz at my house the signal has always been much weaker than B12 (which is 700mhz). I have a few theories for why this swapped.

1. The day before I posted the original tests results, it had been raining. I suspect that this caused some signal attenuation on band 2, and now that things are more dry, it's coming in better.

2. I also had some trees cut down, between when I ran the original test, and this test. They weren't in the way of the antennas, but they are very close to my house, and I suspect it could be related (although this is surprising to me).

Here's the speed test I ran with both bands enabled.

Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 4.37.04 PM.png

Pretty impressive still. (this is the fastest download speed I've ever gotten, even when I tested less than half a mile from the tower. My house is about 5 miles away from this tower FYI.)

I decided to lock bands, and test the results at this point. This is the B12 signal strength, and speed test.

Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 4.49.09 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 4.50.17 PM.png

B12 looks really good, and the interesting thing is upload speed is better while only locked to B12. I suspect this is because the signal strength is better. Also, signal to noise ratio looks MUCH better on B12 (if you compare with screenshots below on Band 2) I still don't fully understand how uplink works in LTE, but from what I understand there is no carrier aggregation in uplink, and only MIMO with a 16QAM modulation? If this is true, that explains why B12 upload is better than B2 upload, as the primary cell is only used for uplink. Maybe someone can clear that up for me?

Anyways, the B2 signal speed and test.

Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 4.45.09 PM.png

Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 4.46.29 PM.png

Pretty similar results, but upload speed is slightly slower (although download is faster than B12).

I'm thinking of buying some band specific high gain Yagi's to try, and compare with these antennas. I'd buy a B2 and B12 specific yagi, and run some more tests. What does everyone think of that idea? I'm still not sold on it, cause I still have to spend a lot of money on getting this setup in a permanent fashion. I do like the fact that this current setup allows me to isolate to either band if I want, or if performance requires so.

[dajmanjt]

Thanks for the update! Great info and conversation. I am going to throw even more options at you that I have experimented with lately lol.

Make your primary antenna a band 2 specific antenna and then your secondary antenna a multi band antenna (use one of the 15 DB ones you already have). I have a client using a band 30 specific sector antenna as his primary and a regular multi-band antenna as his secondary. His results have been that the modem keeps band 30 as the primary frequency and band 12 as the secondary, with no band-locking implemented or needed. The speeds were the best out of all the tests I ran with other antenna setups in that area, including using only band 30 yagis in pairs. The results could be similar for you, worth a shot experimenting since you would only need to buy one 17 DB band 2 yagi to try it out. If you get a band 2 specific antenna that boosts your band 2 signal enough to make it the primary frequency all the time then the multi band antenna is simply supplementing with band 12 for speed. You MUST connect the band 2 antenna to the primary antenna sma connection for this type of setup to work, it must be recognized as the primary antenna. The downside is that on your band 2 antenna your band 12 reception will be less, because the antenna is tuned specifically for band 2. However I have seen this system work great in the past being that band 30 was the better band and any supplementation that was needed came from the multi antenna connected to the secondary antenna sma port.

Also a quick side note I have several band 12/13 specific yagi antennas I have bought through ZDA in the past and they are WAY BIG. The lower the frequency the bigger your antenna has to be to get a high DB out of it. The band 2 antennas are nice and small, about half the size and weight of a band 12 antenna with the same DB output. In fact the 16 DB band 13 yagi I bought came in 2 pieces because it is too big to ship assembled. Just know that ahead of time if you decide to experiment with band 12 specific antennas.

Cheer!

[swwifty]

Thanks for the update! Great info and conversation. I am going to throw even more options at you that I have experimented with lately lol.

Make your primary antenna a band 2 specific antenna and then your secondary antenna a multi band antenna (use one of the 15 DB ones you already have). I have a client using a band 30 specific sector antenna as his primary and a regular multi-band antenna as his secondary. His results have been that the modem keeps band 30 as the primary frequency and band 12 as the secondary, with no band-locking implemented or needed. The speeds were the best out of all the tests I ran with other antenna setups in that area, including using only band 30 yagis in pairs. The results could be similar for you, worth a shot experimenting since you would only need to buy one 17 DB band 2 yagi to try it out. If you get a band 2 specific antenna that boosts your band 2 signal enough to make it the primary frequency all the time then the multi band antenna is simply supplementing with band 12 for speed. You MUST connect the band 2 antenna to the primary antenna sma connection for this type of setup to work, it must be recognized as the primary antenna. The downside is that on your band 2 antenna your band 12 reception will be less, because the antenna is tuned specifically for band 2. However I have seen this system work great in the past being that band 30 was the better band and any supplementation that was needed came from the multi antenna connected to the secondary antenna sma port.

Also a quick side note I have several band 12/13 specific yagi antennas I have bought through ZDA in the past and they are WAY BIG. The lower the frequency the bigger your antenna has to be to get a high DB out of it. The band 2 antennas are nice and small, about half the size and weight of a band 12 antenna with the same DB output. In fact the 16 DB band 13 yagi I bought came in 2 pieces because it is too big to ship assembled. Just know that ahead of time if you decide to experiment with band 12 specific antennas.

Cheer!

It's funny you say this, cause I thought of trying this previously, but this was a good reminder. I think either way I'm going to try some antennas that are band specific. I just went and did a test much higher up on my property, and the results were very interesting (I'll post them here in this thread in a few).

And yes, I'm aware the band 12/13 anntennas are huuugee, but i kind of like that, lol.

[swwifty]

Another update, climbed to the top of my mountain with these antennas

I'm off this week, so I'm trying to constantly stall my property chores Anyways, i had previously tested my omni antennas up at the top of the mountain that is behind my house (about 200 feet higher or so). I wanted to try these antennas up there, so I walked up there with my little portable setup, and the results are very interesting.

I started with both bands, then locked to B2 and then to B12 to test. The results are below.

Signal Strength Both Bands

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.10.00 AM.png

Speed test both bands

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.12.42 AM.png

Signal Strength Band 2

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.16.59 AM.png

Speed test band 2

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.18.32 AM.png

Signal Strength Band 12 (Can't get better than 100%! lol....)

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.22.39 AM.png

Signal Strength Band 12

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.23.01 AM.png

Speed Test Band 12

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.24.21 AM.png

A picture of my test setup, and location. You can see there is a minimal amount of trees to shoot through at this location. I was able to spot the tower today with my binoculars. I can see about 150 feet of it or so, above the ridge line I have to shoot over. I'd been previously aiming the antennas with a compass based on calculations I did online. It was neat to visually confirm that was correct.

5650598260960065142.jpg

The results are fascinating to me. It seems almost to me that carrier aggregation isn't helping in over all bandwith at this location, while my previous tests at my house it did. When I locked to just band 2, the speeds were just as fast as when I had both bands available. It also seems that I've probably reached the limit of band 12 on these antennas. I think the next step will be to try some band 2 specific antennas and play with that configuration.

Any thoughts anyone has, please do share

[dajmanjt]

Dude those band 2 speed tests are super sweet. The best band 2 speeds I got were on a tower down the road from my house. I'll post the speed test results here from that test.

https://imgur.com/a/y8LVoKZ

Question: how are you going to run the internet connection back to your house? Very interested in how you are going to do your final setup. Keep us posted!

[swwifty]

Dude those band 2 speed tests are super sweet. The best band 2 speeds I got were on a tower down the road from my house. I'll post the speed test results here from that test.

https://imgur.com/a/y8LVoKZ

Question: how are you going to run the internet connection back to your house? Very interested in how you are going to do your final setup. Keep us posted!

Wow, that download speed is sick!

Well, I hope I didn't confuse you. Most of my tests have been at my house. This one I just posted later in the day today (not the test from yesterday) was up on the mountain. I've given some serious contemplation to running power up the mountain to that location (in the pic) and mounting a raspberry pi/modem there in a waterproof box along with the antennas. I'd then get the connection back to my house using a PTP wireless bridge (like with a ubiquiti nanostation or something along those lines). That's a lot of work for this connection, so I'd really like to just mount it on my roof at my house for ease of maintenance, setup, etc.

My main goal, that got me started down this whole road, is to have a secondary internet connection. I currently have a DSL connection that is currently very reliable, but I can only get 18-20mbps down, and about 1.5mbps up. Ultimately, no matter where I mount it, I'll use the 4G connection as a second active connection that is load balanced with my PFsense firewall.

The other thing is, the county I live in has really poor internet overall, and I'm very fortunate to have a good stable DSL connection. I started on this project, cause I didn't want to have to learn all of this when/if my DSL connection went down or became unstable. I work full time remote, so my internet connection is highly critical. I already had a situation where one of my DSL pairs went down, and I lost half my speed. Turned out the crappy DSL modem failed on one of the phone lines, so they had to replace it, but it took nearly a week to do that.

[dajmanjt]

No worries on the confusion, you have been very clear so far and I have followed your train of thought on the two different locations throughout the experimentation process. My question was specifically on if you decided to mount the system in that remote area how you were gonna get the internet back to your house, since I assumed you would not be hard lining it back. You answered that question by talking about using a PTP bridge which makes sense, however I am with you on simpler is better. If you can find a spot at your house where you can get band 2 to be reliable and fast you can save a bunch of money and get great results as well. Your speeds already look great at your house except the upload.

That's awesome that you have fast DSL. Where I live at the best I can get from ATT is 1 Mbps down and .5 Mbps up. No other options besides satellites internet, which isn't an option really cause satellite internet sucks. My journey into the world of LTE internet as a home solution started many years ago out of necessity and then branched out from there as I found out I love the experimenting and exploring. Now it's def my favorite past time at the moment, a hobby I really enjoy.

[swwifty]

No worries on the confusion, you have been very clear so far and I have followed your train of thought on the two different locations throughout the experimentation process. My question was specifically on if you decided to mount the system in that remote area how you were gonna get the internet back to your house, since I assumed you would not be hard lining it back. You answered that question by talking about using a PTP bridge which makes sense, however I am with you on simpler is better. If you can find a spot at your house where you can get band 2 to be reliable and fast you can save a bunch of money and get great results as well. Your speeds already look great at your house except the upload.

That's awesome that you have fast DSL. Where I live at the best I can get from ATT is 1 Mbps down and .5 Mbps up. No other options besides satellites internet, which isn't an option really cause satellite internet sucks. My journey into the world of LTE internet as a home solution started many years ago out of necessity and then branched out from there as I found out I love the experimenting and exploring. Now it's def my favorite past time at the moment, a hobby I really enjoy.

Ah gotcha

I'm going to order some B2 yagis today to try and see what that looks like.

Ouch on that DSL speed, i'm preparing in advance for that scenario

I'm also investigating starting my own WISP. My mom has a house on my property, and I currently share my internet with her via two 2.4ghz nanostations. Her house is about 500 feet away through trees no LOS. That setup is also what got my started on this journey! It sure is fun!

[ph34rful]

No worries on the thread hijack. This is all good info. It's interesting that they'd be getting band 30 out there. I think a good quality antenna will make all the difference. That "remote it" link I shared, is a reverse proxy, you can run on the router. You wouldn't need a public IP, cause you use a tunnel to get to the router with it, I'd recommend checking it out more.

In other news, I ran some more tests with these antennas today, and had some interesting results. I'll share more in the AM, when I'm rested and can do a full detailed write up.

Can the remote.it service be utilized on devices other than a pi? I signed up but don't see how I can use it with the setup I'm working with, or maybe it's outside my skill set.

Also, this thread is making me wish I could actively tinker with this stuff, very nice results!

[swwifty]

Can the remote.it service be utilized on devices other than a pi? I signed up but don't see how I can use it with the setup I'm working with, or maybe it's outside my skill set.

Also, this thread is making me wish I could actively tinker with this stuff, very nice results!

I believe it can be, but I haven't set it up yet on any of my devices.

Sorry if I mis-lead you, let me do some research on that and I'll get back to you.

[swwifty]

I was doing some reading last night, and discovered something very interested. I was reading on Shannon's Capacity theory (I have read up on it before, but never compared it to real tests) Here's a link to a good video that explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ancDN11C2vg

I started doing some math on the performance I got with various tests, to see how my real throughput compared to the possible maximum throughput.

I was looking at my tests up on the mountain from yesterday, and discovered that they were at the upper limit of maximum possible bandwith per Shannon's capacity theory.

For example, Band 2 test yesterday:

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.16.59 AM.png

Note that the SINR is about 20.

Screen Shot 2018-10-03 at 11.18.32 AM.png

Speed test from band 2.

Now do the math and guess what? For a 20mhz channel with a SINR of 20 the maximum throughput possible is.... 87.8 mbps!

(You can do the calculations here yourself if you don't believe me: http://www.rfwireless-world.com/calculators/channel-capacity-calculator.html).

This also happened with my band 12 test up on the mountain. The ones outside at my house, I ran them through the calculator and they still had a lot of room to improve. If I'm understanding this correctly then, I think this means a few things.

1. The only way to improve my bandwith (at least in the tests at the top of the mountain) is to get a better signal to noise ratio.

2. The antennas were working at full capacity and efficiency if you think about it. The only way to improve from this test, would be to have completely clear LOS (this was close, but you all saw from the pictures that it wasn't quite).

3. Signal to noise ratio is everything. I've noticed this in other tests as well. There's a few reasons for this. (Improving signal strength is a good idea, but SNR is much much more important)

A. LTE modulation rates increase as SINR ratio improves, so you can get more bits per symbol and more throughput. See this link: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Mea ... 2_47330409. It's not the greatest diagram, but you get the idea.

B. The more narrow the bandwith, the higher SNR one will have. Why is this? Because the less spectrum you are viewing, the less noise you will have. This is why when I'm using both bands the signal to noise ratio is much lower than when I'm isolating the modem to one specific band.

C. I've seen this on my ubiquiti nanostations. They are 2.4ghz, and if I run a 40mhz wide channel, they pick up tons of noise, but if they are only 10mhz wise, the SNR improves greatly.

4. I ordered some B2 yagis yesterday, so it will be interesting to see if they can improve on the SNR at my house, and therefore improve my throughput.

[dajmanjt]

Great info and observations! I completely agree about SNR/SINR, with LTE it is a very very important aspect of the process. Below is a couple of websites further digging into SINR and its relation to high frequency signals (2.4ghz and higher) and general LTE frequencies also.

[url]http://www.wireless-nets.com/resources/tutorials/define_SNR_values.html[/url]

https://www.cablefree.net/wirelesstechn ... rsrq-sinr/

Keep posting to here with further observations! I will also be posting back here when I complete some tests early next week on some new antennas I am working with.

[swwifty]

Great info and observations! I completely agree about SNR/SINR, with LTE it is a very very important aspect of the process. Below is a couple of websites further digging into SINR and its relation to high frequency signals (2.4ghz and higher) and general LTE frequencies also.

[url]http://www.wireless-nets.com/resources/tutorials/define_SNR_values.html[/url]

https://www.cablefree.net/wirelesstechn ... rsrq-sinr/

Keep posting to here with further observations! I will also be posting back here when I complete some tests early next week on some new antennas I am working with.

Good links, I've read about this some already, but its starting to click more so now that I'm testing in various conditions, locations, etc.

[swwifty]

Got the band 2 yagis today, comprehensive test results coming soon

[swwifty]

Update: ran a ton of tests yesterday, full report coming soon

Unfortunately, I don't have time this weekend to do a full write up (It's gonna be long), but wanted to give some spoilers

Short story, the DP727L15 is a great antenna across the wideband of frequencies it covers. Band 2 at my house just seems to be all over the place in terms of interference. I think it's because of all the trees in the way. It will be interesting to see what happens when all the leaves fall off the trees for winter.

A quick comparison of the 3dbi omnis / 15dbi flat panel / 17 dbi yagis for Band 2

3dbi omni:

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 1.47.32 PM.png

15dbi flat panels (notice band 12 was selected as primary today, in my last test, Band 2 was selected as primary):

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 1.59.54 PM.png

17dbi Band 2 Yagis:

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 2.13.12 PM.png

More detailed writeup coming later, but that's some good food for thought

[dajmanjt]

Very interesting! Keep the info coming. I am completing an install refresh at my house tomorrow and will post pics along with info soon.

[dajmanjt]

Another thought, maybe get a screenshot of the readings from the 15 DBI locked into band 2, so then you can compare apples to apples on the yagis. The readings from the 15 DBI are only showing the sinr for band 12, not band 2. If you look at the RSSI for band 2 it goes up dramatically from the 15 DBI antennas to the 17 dbi. But we can't see the RSRQ for the 15 DBI antenna correctly because it is not locked to band 2.

I know you prob already know this but I'll paste a summary of the three components below:

"RSRP (Reference Signal Receive Power) is the average power of Resource Elements (RE) that carry cell specific Reference Signals (RS) over the entire bandwidth, so RSRP is only measured in the symbols carrying RS. While RSSI (Received Signal Strength Indicator) is a parameter which provides information about total received wide-band power (measure in all symbols) including all interference and thermal noise.

So it would be safe to write that, in LTE, RSRP provides information about signal strength and RSSI helps in determining interference and noise information. This is the reason, RSRQ (Reference Signal Receive Quality) measurement and calculation is based on both RSRP and RSSI."

[swwifty]

Sorry for the delay getting this posted up, been really busy the last few days.

I've already posted the results of the 3dbi omnis vs. 15 dbi flat panel vs. 17 dbi yagis (with their respective appropriate bands). I won't post them again, but wanted to share a few other interesting scenarios I tested.

1. 15dbi flat panels locked to band 2 vs. 17dbi yagis locked to band 2.
2. A hybrid setup (like previously suggested) of the primary antenna connected to the 17dbi band 2 yagis, and the secondary antenna connected to the 15 dbi flat panel.
3. I've always tested them mounted on the same pole, so I separated the antennas between two different poles about 5 feet apart to see if there was any difference.

The weather during these tests was great. Partly cloudy, about 85 degrees and about 65-80% humidity.

15dbi flat panels vs 17dbi yagis

15dbi flat panels locked to band 2:

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 2.54.45 PM.png

15dbi flat panel speed test

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 2.55.53 PM.png

17dbi yagis locked to band 2:

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 2.13.12 PM.png

17dbi yagis speed test locked to band 2 (this was the best one, speeds varied a lot from 20mbps to 40mbps):

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 2.21.46 PM.png

It's interesting cause the performance is about the same, which was a bit surprising to me. That being said, when the 15dbi flat panels weren't locked to a band, they selected Band 12 as the primary over Band 2. It seems that the RSSI value for Band 2 is all over the place, and I don't understand why. See the signal values below for the 15dbi flat panel with both bands enabled (to see what I mean):

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 1.59.54 PM.png

Hybrid setup of primary antenna (as described earlier)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 2.30.52 PM.png

It was interesting here that even with the 17dbi yagi that is designed for band 2, it still selected band 12 over band 2. This tells me it always uses the diversity antenna (the second antenna used for MIMO) as input on which band to select. You can also see the difference in signal performance between the two antennas for various bands. Note that the band 2 signal is about the same for both antennas. I didn't save the download speeds for this, because they weren't worth mentioning. Upload didn't work at all, because the primary antenna isn't designed for band 12, so it couldn't upload anything at all. This helped clarify for me that uplink on 4G doesn't use MIMO or Carrier Aggregation at all (at least in my area).

I'll be posting the results of the results in a second post in a min (hit the attachment limit i think, heh)

[swwifty]

Separate pole setup

15 dbi flat panels (both bands)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.29.22 PM.png

Note here that Band 2 was selected over Band 12, which is very interesting, and perplexing.

15 dbi flat panels speed test (both bands)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.30.53 PM.png

15 dbi flat panels (band 12)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.25.51 PM.png

15 dbi flat panels speed test (band 12)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.26.48 PM.png

15 dbi flat panels (band 2)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.21.48 PM.png

15 dbi flat panels speed test (band 2)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.22.59 PM.png

17 dbi yagis (band 2)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.48.17 PM.png

17 dbi yagis speed test (band 2)

Screen Shot 2018-10-05 at 3.49.37 PM.png

I really don't understand why RSSI is all over the place for band 2, but also when I lock specific bands to the modem. I suspect that when the modem isn't locked to a band it picks up a lot more interference from the antenna, and when its locked to a band it filters that out (hence the better RSSI and SNR). More than likely, I'll keep the flat panels, and return the yagis, since using the yagis limits me only to band 2 and its so inconsistent it doesn't make sense to lock myself to that hardware wise. In the future, if i want to lock to band 2, I can do that with the flat panel antennas and not have to be swapping hardware on the roof, etc.

[dajmanjt]

Very interesting results indeed. Very surprised that the yagi was less effective than the panel antenna. I've sent an email to Jim to ask for the azimuth for those panel antennas, since there isn't much information available for them out there. Typical panel antennas that size can't get better than 9dbi, not sure how they managed to squeeze 15dbi out of them. In this test it would even suggest that the panel antennas are hitting 17dbi. I have two of them at my house but have not put them through the paces yet. I agree with your analysis though, it seems like the panel antennas are the better choice for your situation.

Thanks for all the info and updates!

[swwifty]

Very interesting results indeed. Very surprised that the yagi was less effective than the panel antenna. I've sent an email to Jim to ask for the azimuth for those panel antennas, since there isn't much information available for them out there. Typical panel antennas that size can't get better than 9dbi, not sure how they managed to squeeze 15dbi out of them. In this test it would even suggest that the panel antennas are hitting 17dbi. I have two of them at my house but have not put them through the paces yet. I agree with your analysis though, it seems like the panel antennas are the better choice for your situation.

Thanks for all the info and updates!

I was wondering that myself, as I have yet to see any panel antennas rated that high on DBI gain as well. I suspect that something else is possibly going on. If the panel antennas are lower gain than advertised, then they have a wider beam width, and that is helping over come the scattering of the signals. The yagis are so focused, that they are losing some gain over the panels, because of their narrow beam width. If that makes sense?

I'm really tempted to try some high gain omnis now, lol.

[dajmanjt]

Hmm interesting thought process. Seems plausible from a surface level observation. I have no idea how one would be able to show that in a test but that would explain the signal strength similarities between the two. Just wait till you see a pic of the sector antenna I installed on Sunday, it's 15 DBI but literally 20x larger than that 15dbi panel antenna. And I'm getting results that show the increase in signal strength. But there is a part of me that wonders if those small 15bdi panel antennas would have worked just as well lol. All I know is I ain't taking that heavy panel antenna down anytime soon so we might never know ha.

[swwifty]

Hmm interesting thought process. Seems plausible from a surface level observation. I have no idea how one would be able to show that in a test but that would explain the signal strength similarities between the two. Just wait till you see a pic of the sector antenna I installed on Sunday, it's 15 DBI but literally 20x larger than that 15dbi panel antenna. And I'm getting results that show the increase in signal strength. But there is a part of me that wonders if those small 15bdi panel antennas would have worked just as well lol. All I know is I ain't taking that heavy panel antenna down anytime soon so we might never know ha.

haha, thats funny, can't wait to see your write up on it!

I'm going to do some more tests, before i return the yagis, just to rule out any day to day variables. I'm sure there's a ton of variables going on, and ones that I'm not even aware of.

[JimHelms]

I've sent an email to Jim to ask for the azimuth for those panel antennas, since there isn't much information available for them out there.

I made a note to request them from the manufacturer but forgot to send an email. I did send it a few minutes ago and should hopefully have a response tomorrow.

I regularly mention how the optimal antenna setup is often derived from trial and error. And, this topic is a very good example of that type of strategy and contains a lot of useful information. Good stuff!

[swwifty]

Looking forward to that information Jim! Yes, I agree, lots of trial and error helps, and teaches a lot.

This morning I was doing some thinking as related to my posted I just shared about reference signals (see that in the off-topic section).

I recently purchased some of these (https://www.rfarmor.com/nanostation-kit ... 35-2p.html) rf armor kits for my nanostations (that I currently use to connect my mother's home to my network, which is about 500 feet away through trees). I bought some of these because, surprisingly, I have a lot of RF interference on 2.4ghz even living in a very rural area.

This got me thinking. What if I made something like this for my 4G flat panel antennas? I recently got a software defined radio (this one to be exact: https://www.sdrplay.com/rsp2/) and have been learning a ton recently about radio communications. One thing I've learned is that antennas will pick up nearly all frequencies even if they are tuned to a specific one (I saw this in my testing of the 17dbi band 2 yagis). I had heard with SDRs you can get "band filters" and some of them are even built in, so if your radio is getting overloaded with strong radio signals from various services, like FM radio, LTE, etc, you can filter them out to pick up weaker signals in other frequency ranges. That all said, I started looking, and found that there is companies that actually make filters for LTE antennas (http://www.microwavefilter.com/wireless-lp.html). I'm looking around to see if I can find some to buy and try out. I have a feeling using one, could make a big difference in terms of signal to noise on my current antennas.

Anyways, just wanted to share as I found it quite interesting. I'll be doing some more testing with my flat panel and yagis this afternoon to see if my results from a few days ago still hold.

[swwifty]

Doing some more research, and found this: https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/d ... -1940-S%2B which is a band pass filter, for band 2 range, but might try and find a high pass filter, so I can still use CA.

[JimHelms]

Looking forward to that information Jim! Yes, I agree, lots of trial and error helps, and teaches a lot.

Here are a few specs on the 15dBi antenna.

15dBi 3.pdf

[swwifty]

Here are a few specs on the 15dBi antenna.

15dBi 3.pdf

Thanks for sharing! That's what I suspected actually, that the advertised gain was on the highest frequency that the antenna was rated for. Regardless, this is still a very good antenna, even in a non-light of sight environment.

On band 2, its nearly on par with the 17dbi yagis that are designed for only band 2.

[ph34rful]

Here are a few specs on the 15dBi antenna.

15dBi 3.pdf

Thanks for the info! Any chance of the same for the DP1727X15? https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/1700-2 ... l-antenna/

I'm curious how their performance compares at the higher frequencies.

[swwifty]

Thanks for the info! Any chance of the same for the DP1727X15? https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/1700-2 ... l-antenna/

I'm curious how their performance compares at the higher frequencies.

I would guess its basically the same. The higher up in frequency you go, typically the more gain its possible to get (at least in a wideband antenna that is)

[JimHelms]

Thanks for the info! Any chance of the same for the DP1727X15? https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/1700-2 ... l-antenna/

I'm curious how their performance compares at the higher frequencies.

Sure can:

DP1727X15.pdf

[swwifty]

I ran through another series of tests a few days ago, to compare the antennas again on a different day. This wasn't a 100% fair test, because of a few things.

1. Weather was a little bit "better" I guess you could say? Less humidity and clear skies.
2. I compared the flat panel antennas and the yagis, on a pole about 10 feet up, vs about 5 feet up (as before). I recently recieved my antenna setup, and I have two poles that are sleeved, so I can have a 10 foot pole. The results from this were rather interesting.
3. I had to use my 10 foot LMR400 cable attached to my 4 foot LMR195 cable, because my 4 foot one wouldn't reach that high. This might have introduced a little bit more of signal loss.

17dbi Yagis on Band 2 on just a 5 foot pole (Keep in mind this is already about 25 feet in the air, on a porch off my house).

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.21.17 PM.png

Picking up another cell off (that is slightly interfering) in the distance with these yagis (I didn't see this on the 15dbi panels)

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.20.36 PM.png

Speed test with 17dbi yagis on 5 foot pole.

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.22.21 PM.png

Now, compare the 17dbi yagis, when adding a 5 foot extension ontop. Keep in mind, this is only 5 feet higher.

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.36.22 PM.png

Even that distant interfering cell comes in stronger.

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.36.49 PM.png

Speed test:

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.38.08 PM.png

It's pretty clear that SINR improved quite a good bit by just going up 5 feet higher in the air. This is exciting, cause once I mount these on the roof, they will be about 10-15 feet even higher than that! I don't know why my upload speed was slower, but there is a lot of factors going on here that could be contributing. I did some tests on a few other speed test sites, and saw this:

Screen Shot 2018-10-12 at 2.58.58 PM.png

It's really tough to test the full throughput between myself, and the tower, when I have to go all the way over the internet to do an actual speed test. The "slowness" could be coming in after the radio link, on the way across the internet to the speed test site. It's really hard to say either way.

[swwifty]

Now, here's the 15dbi flat panel locked to band 2. (also on the high 10 foot pole)

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.57.23 PM.png

Keep in mind here that SINR looks better on this, but this was just a snapshot. It was fluctuating between about 11-14, the same with the Yagis.

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.57.37 PM.png

Notice, no detected other cell.

Speed test:

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 5.59.29 PM.png

And just for completeness sake, tested on both bands (notice band 2 was selected this time):

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 6.06.37 PM.png

LTE Info:

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 6.06.55 PM.png

Speed test:

Screen Shot 2018-10-11 at 6.08.10 PM.png

[swwifty]

I finally got my outdoor antenna mount setup, and did a final test on the roof. The results actually surprised me.

17dbi gain yagis signal strength

Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 12.36.03 PM.png

Speed test

Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 12.38.07 PM.png

Now compared to the flat panels locked to band 2.

Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 1.00.35 PM.png

Speed test of the flat panels locked to band 2

Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 1.01.57 PM.png

These results surprised me, because all the way through my testing the yagis and the flat panels have been neck and neck on band 2. That being said, I never tested the yagis up on the top of the mountain behind my house, so I don't know if they would do better there than the flat panels or not, but I suspect they will (I might do that test later). I have a feeling that the closer I get to a line of sight setup, the better these yagi antennas will perform against the flat panels. You can see though with the yagis that SINR is better, and so is RSRP (in the exact same location, and within about 20 mins these tests were run of each other)

For overall comparison, this is the flat panels on both bands (not much faster than just the yagis on band 2 by themselves):

Screen Shot 2018-10-18 at 1.08.12 PM.png

A picture of the antennas, and how high they are on the roof:

roof pic.jpg

[swwifty]

A couple of other thoughts:

1. As part of my adventures into learning LTE, etc, I recently purchased a SDR (if you don't know what this is google it). I've been learning a ton about radio, and one thing I recently realized is this comparison might not be 100% fair for the yagis. Why? Well, LTE transmits uses mimo, which is transmitted via two streams in a X polarity (one +45 one -45 degrees). You can see this described and pictured in various antennas you can buy. That being said, the yagis this entire time testing, I had one mounted vertically and the other horizontal to try and compensate for this and I thought it was no big deal. Fast forward to messing around with my SDR, I learned that receiving antennas have to be oriented in the direction of the polarization of the transmitting antenna, or they will lose signal strength (I tested this with a few FM stations that transmit vertically polarized and with the antennas completely horizontal I can't hear the station at all!). I think this might account for why the flat panels have always seem to be on par with the yagis. I did a test with the yagis mounted 45 degrees (one each) and there wasn't too much of a difference between that, and having them mounted the original way. When I look at a 4G signal with my SDR, it's very clear that the signal is strongest when the antennas are oriented in a -/+ 45 degree orientation. I need to find some mounts that will allow me to amount these at +/- 45 degrees.

2. My roof mount mast is 10 feet tall, and I want to put my antennas as high as possible. One factor is all of this is weight at the end of the pole. The flat panels weigh 3lbs more total, than the yagis. I'm concerned that if I don't install some guy wire, I'll eventually damage this pole. This has me leaning towards the yagis for the final install, but the flat panels are so much more versatile (they have a much wider range of frequencies) it makes sense to use them even though they are not as fast.

3. Lastly, I'm going to try a band pass filter for one of the antennas, to see if this helps improve signal strength and SINR. Surprisingly, there is a lot of strong signals around here that are likely causing my modem to be overloaded with RF. I'm probably going to end up getting this one: https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/d ... NHP-600%2B to try on both antennas.

[swwifty]

oh also, thought I'd share a screenshot from my SDR software of a 10mhz wide LTE signal that is around 750mhz freqency.

For those of you who know more about LTE (or want to) you can clearly see the ODFMA signal (and it transmitting all the reference signals) and all the various little sub carriers. It's really fun to watch this in real time, and see your phone downloading data, etc. Uplink is even more fun to watch, cause its not a continuous stream of data like downlink is.

Screen Shot 2018-10-21 at 4.22.22 PM.png

[swwifty]

Finally got this project 95% completed and running in a full time manner. I'll be posting a separate thread on this soon with lots of details on my final setup with pics, etc.

[swwifty]

Got a thread up on my final completed solution, you can read more about here: https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=123

[gscheb]

Hello,
Been reading this post to learn about my own set up.
Have the same issue. When I run Carrier Aggregation on T-Mobile always get band 12 as my primary and band 2 as my secondary. The results is that will get a speed download of about 15mbps. But If lock to band 2 will get download speeds of about 30-40mbps. I have a proxicast mimo panel type antenna on top of a antenna tower about 24-27 feet in the air with 50 foot of lmr-400 going to a Mofi 4500. My tower distance is very similar to yours at 4.7 miles away. My signal is not the best so I know that I need a better antenna which is why been reading this post. Seems to me that the Yagi band 2 antennas would be best for me.

But this is my two question that is contusing me about this stuff.
--1. If you lock to band 2 does that mean that Carrier aggregation is not being used then?
--2.Also if that is true, if you are locked to band 2 does that mean your LTE cat modem doesn't matter that much? Say like having Cat 6 or 12 LTE modem if you are band locked to band 2?

Thanks in advance to any help with this

Signal Status.PNG

[swwifty]

Yes, if you lock to only one band by definition that will disable CA, but in your case it can be a better thing if download is better on Band 2. Most likely though you will sacrifice upload speed as the signal on band 2 will be weaker coming from your modem than band 12.

Locking to a band doesn't impact what Cat Modem you have. CA features are Cat modem specific but also there are many other LTE release features you want other than CA bands and features, so I recommend always having the latest and greatest for that reason.

[gscheb]

Hello swwifty,
Believe I just read a post that said you would mostly recommend wide band antennas? Apposed to Yagi Band specific ones? Asking to see if you are still using your Yagi Band 2 antennas as your set up? Very much considering doing the set up like you had from this post. Would you still recommend to do this? Trying to learn more about things before buy things and see what sticks. Like I have been doing in the past before finding this website.

[swwifty]

Hello swwifty,
Believe I just read a post that said you would mostly recommend wide band antennas? Apposed to Yagi Band specific ones? Asking to see if you are still using your Yagi Band 2 antennas as your set up? Very much considering doing the set up like you had from this post. Would you still recommend to do this? Trying to learn more about things before buy things and see what sticks. Like I have been doing in the past before finding this website.

I really don't recommend doing band specific antennas anymore. Unless that is literally your only option or band available in your area. It creates too many headaches, and LTE was designed to work with multiple bands, and subsequently overcomes a lot of wireless channel issues. There's really no point in not taking advantage of the technical design of LTE.

[gscheb]

Thanks.
So did you replace your one band yagi antennas now then? If you have a new set up post I would like to see it. Looked for it didn't see one.

[swwifty]

Thanks.
So did you replace your one band yagi antennas now then? If you have a new set up post I would like to see it. Looked for it didn't see one.

I need to update my original post, but haven't yet.

I'm using the log periodic radome antennas that The Wireless Haven sells.

I'm also using Verizon now over AT&T as they have a close tower to me, and I get even better speeds.

[gscheb]

Ok thanks will look at those antennas. Is there currently some where you can get Verizon unlimited hotspot plan? Don't use Verizon cause don't know of such product.

[swwifty]

Ok thanks will look at those antennas. Is there currently some where you can get Verizon unlimited hotspot plan? Don't use Verizon cause don't know of such product.

some what exactly? You'd have to chose a plan that Verizon has and use that. That's what I did.

[unbunchster]

I'm using the log periodic radome antennas that The Wireless Haven sells.

Find no match for 'log' on the page

https://thewirelesshaven.com/?catid=&s=radome&post_type=product

[swwifty]

Find no match for 'log' on the page

https://thewirelesshaven.com/?catid=&s=radome&post_type=product

Here they are: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/4g-lte ... l-antenna/

They are called yagi's on the page, but they are actually log periodic antennas. Regardless, they still work very well.

[keigan]

Fantastic thread!

QQ: did you notice any changes with the band / high pass filters installed on the LTE side ?

[swwifty]

Fantastic thread!

QQ: did you notice any changes with the band / high pass filters installed on the LTE side ?

Not really, if there was any changes they were minimal.

[keigan]

This is my rig on the back patio. Signals inside of my house were never better than one bar, with two to occasional three bars outside.

With the antennas and a Mofi4500 i now have 30down and 25up with signal strength -88dbi. Tower is five miles away. The 10db 2.4ghz antennas cut right through the house and give me excellent performance from inside the house.

The flat panels actually have better performance in this config than in the -+45 offset. Additionally, subtle angle change to the second panel helped to strengthen the alternate signal.

Excellent thread!! I learned a ton and now have amamazing speeds

[swwifty]

very cool, thanks for sharing!

[WhiskeyLifa]

I’m 6-9 miles with hardly any LOS, will this work?

[swwifty]

I’m 6-9 miles with hardly any LOS, will this work?

No idea without you actually trying. The situation is different for every user.

There are users though that use these high gain antennas to connect to towers over 5+ miles away with no issue.

[blee0518]

Swifty you sound like the man with the plan.
I having some pretty painful issues. still learning cellular world.
So I have a mofi 4500 V2 router, 2 WirEng wide band antennas(dont worry i didnt pay for them), and using ULLM240 cable, 25ft. I will probably shorten.
So I just purchased 2 new antennas and mounted them in place of the WirEng because they are supposed to have higher gain, 16dbi. They are put in vertically, one over the other, about 1 ft apart. My signal did improve by 8 to 95 db. but my speeds are still the same. here is a link of my antennas:

https://www.wireng.com/wideant-lite/
New Antennas
http://zdacomm.com/product/698-755-mhz-yagi-antenna-16-dbi/

Am I cutting myself short in being able to pickup better speeds?
speeds are around 10Mbps and randomly a few times a day i will pickup 25Mbps from my scheduled tests.
Still learning about mimo tech.

[blee0518]

testing because i posted but it did not show up.

[steveg]

So I have a mofi 4500 V2 router, 2 WirEng wide band antennas(dont worry i didnt pay for them), and using ULLM240 cable, 25ft. I will probably shorten.

Could be hurting yourself with the LM240, personally wouldn't use it for anything over 10 feet. I have a 25 ft run and using LMR400.

Also depending on the band, loading and distance you may not be able to do any better. Since you are seeing some higher peaks at times it may just be a case of band congestion.

Just my opinion for what it is worth. Good luck!

[swwifty]

Swifty you sound like the man with the plan.
I having some pretty painful issues. still learning cellular world.
So I have a mofi 4500 V2 router, 2 WirEng wide band antennas(dont worry i didnt pay for them), and using ULLM240 cable, 25ft. I will probably shorten.
So I just purchased 2 new antennas and mounted them in place of the WirEng because they are supposed to have higher gain, 16dbi. They are put in vertically, one over the other, about 1 ft apart. My signal did improve by 8 to 95 db. but my speeds are still the same. here is a link of my antennas:

https://www.wireng.com/wideant-lite/
New Antennas
http://zdacomm.com/product/698-755-mhz-yagi-antenna-16-dbi/

Am I cutting myself short in being able to pickup better speeds?
speeds are around 10Mbps and randomly a few times a day i will pickup 25Mbps from my scheduled tests.
Still learning about mimo tech.

LMR400 could make a difference. The only way to know for sure is to test with your modem connected to the 25ft of the LMR240, then connect your modem to the antennas with a short jumper and compare. I'd do this within about 3-5 mins to give you an idea of if it is the long cable run, or congestion that is the issue.

[blee0518]

Sorry about the delay, didnt get an email that you responded.
On my initial testing i was using a 3 ft pigtail at the antennas before adding the longer 240 cables, and speeds were at the higher range, 22-24 but I didnt stay up there long to check stability. I also ended up trying a suggestion from another user to mix up the antennas, one band 12 and one wide band, getting more stable speeds between 20-30Mbps along with CA. Cant seem to get Band 2 as primary, its 20Mhz bandwidth. I am going to test out the shorter cable with this setup in the next few days.

I also ordered materials and parts to mount the module and router at the pole. I ordered a Raspberry Pi 4 bc it has gigabit Ethernet, though i wont see these speeds, it will help with data rate transfer.
I am tossing around the idea of either using openWRT or just configuring a linux distro to manage network services.

Since I have a veteran on the line, I am expanding this project to include dual LTE services for internet and intend on load balancing them. will try to check back later in the week when I get it all together and share pictures. I will pulling the module out of the Mofi router. going to trash their firmware, they have to responded to me in weeks for help. BTW, to you know the version of openwrt or ROOter i should use for the Mofi4500 V2? might use it for training on the setup. Is Pi 4 supported in ROOter? cant seem to get any responses from their forum as its just a huge thread. Id offer host server space if I could get someone to talk to me and help make things a bit more organized.

Any suggestions on running a linux distro and packages to manage the network connection on raspberry? The reason I ask, is because I can add sensors to the pi and be able to manage better, and looking to move it up 60 ft in a tree and can not check on it easily.

anyways, thanks for the response and any help is appreciated.

[steveg]

BTW, to you know the version of openwrt or ROOter i should use for the Mofi4500 V2?

I successfully loaded the WiFix version of GoldenOrb WE826 on my MoFi4500V2. You have to do it with the recovery flash procedure. So assuming any version of OpenWrt for WE826 should work. Only glitch I've found it there is no way to get the power led to work from my attempts and searches about it.

[BillA]

I successfully loaded the WiFix version of GoldenOrb WE826 on my MoFi4500V2. You have to do it with the recovery flash procedure. So assuming any version of OpenWrt for WE826 should work. Only glitch I've found it there is no way to get the power led to work from my attempts and searches about it.

Try these LED light tweaks (you will probably have to play around a bit to get it right):

https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=666
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=4269#p4269
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=12 ... ights#p228

[steveg]

Thanks BillA, those are some of the things I tried already. All leds work except the power. Not that big of a deal just have to know can't rely on it for indicating power is on. But WiFi works so it will indicate router is on when it connects. I've seen on other sites people have the same problem, seems it's just hit or miss and has to do with having the right firmware version installed. Not willing to load a bunch of them just to see.

[BillA]

Thanks BillA, those are some of the things I tried already. All leds work except the power. Not that big of a deal just have to know can't rely on it for indicating power is on. But WiFi works so it will indicate router is on when it connects. I've seen on other sites people have the same problem, seems it's just hit or miss and has to do with having the right firmware version installed. Not willing to load a bunch of them just to see.

As long as you flash it through the bootloader, it's pretty safe.
If you're technically inclined, you could rewire the existing power LED, and it will light up as soon as you apply power to the router (you can leave the ground as it, just crape away the trace from the positive leg and tie it to the V+ rail of the main board via a 1k resistor). But then again, if any of the other lights are lit, guess that's good enough. lol
Ok let's not veer off the OP, and get back to the antenna review.

[bjmc12]

any luck on the raspberry pi 4 build yet?
thanks