dBm and download speed aren't matching up

[AaronMiller]

I am pretty new to cell phone antennas and boosters. I have a booster at my house because I live in a rural area and the only internet is satellite which can't really be considered internet service. So I am trying to boost my phones signal and use a hot spot for internet. Anyway, at work in town I have -97 dBm and a download rate on opensignal of around 40 mbps. At home with the booster on I have -79 dBm standing next to the booster and my download is about 400 kbps. I thought the lower dBm the better the signal, could this be the tower by my property which is right about 4 miles from my place? Do certain towers have data and others don't? I have been banging my head against a wall with no progress no matter how much money I dump into this pit. And why does the signal fluctuate so much, I will not move and get -120 then -97. There is nothing in the way from the tower to my place but trees, no hills, rocks, steel buildings, houses. Also the service is verizon on band 13, so it should be able to handle a few trees. I also have the bolton parabolic antenna connected to a 5 band booster, phontone.

[derekjsmith]

Which modem? What kind of antennas do you have on your router and are you using the "5 band booster" as the signal for your router?

For example I've got a EM12 modem with a Cross-polarized MIMO external antenna array (see my avatar). Am 7 miles a bit of elevation and lots of trees and am able to get 15mb. It does take some fine tuning. At this distance my goal was to keep the noise under -10 vs looking for best gain. Also with fine tuning I was able to get 3 band CA working, band 5 as primary with bands 2/4 as secondaries. At this distance and noise I'm not getting higher QPSK/QAM but with CA it did the trick.

MIMO = Multiple in Multiple out, in this case a 2x2 so two signal paths for input and output using two antennas as an array. Sometimes in a single enclosure or two separate identical antennas. In both cases two cables running to router This way if one antenna has a better signal (less noise) it'll use that. Now a cross-polarized antenna array gives you the best dual antenna configuration. LTE uses whats called circular polarization. Think of it as a corkscrew coming from the LTE tower. A cross-polarized antenna array matches what is coming from the LTE tower. It's also able to reduce off polarization noise, again less noise.

CA = Carrier Aggregation, method of using more than a single band to improve download speeds. It's the old school way of getting performance but is still used for older phones.

QPSK/QAM = Quadrature amplitude modulation, method of packing more data (speed) into a single band from 16QAM, 64QAM and 256QAM. Newer way of improving download speeds but needs a stronger/cleaner signal (less noise). This is how we're able to get near gigabit downloads on some systems.

My EM12 modem debug info:

+QRSRP: -107,-107,-140,-140
--- the first two numbers are my primary and differential antennas

+QCAINFO: "pcc",2560,50,"LTE BAND 5",1,174,-107,-9,-78,12
--- the primary band 5 with a signal of -107 and noise of -9

+QCAINFO: "scc",2050,100,"LTE BAND 4",1,174,-128,-20,-86,-5,DL
--- 1st secondary CA band 4 signal of -128 and noise of -20

+QCAINFO: "scc",850,50,"LTE BAND 2",2,174,-124,-13,-94,1,DL
--- 2nd secondary CA band 2 signal of -124 and noise of -13

[gscheb]

Well booster can be great for your cell phones in a fringe area. But if you consistent data internet wifi connection forget the booster. Need a modem directly hooked to to antenna no booster.
I started out down that road you are on in the beginning. Always a head ache.
Far as you signal strengths being better. We don't know what band it was one or cell tower which can make a big difference.

[Adm1jtg]

Even simplier then that what is your sinr? The booster will boost EVERYTHING including noise so you may infact just have a very strong very noisy signal. 400k will still make a reasonable phone call but as you noted makes for horrible downloads.

[Dr-BroadBand]

See link

https://youtu.be/5kHu6iE3ar0

[gscheb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14tWiAsqfJk

[derekjsmith]

Sorry I didn't see that you are using your cell as a hotspot and the booster with the parabolic. Others have already posted that a "booster" does just that noise and all. In fact a booster can be worse than nothing at all because of this. Also a booster does not have the ability to use MIMO antenna setup to minimize noise. Your trees can cause a lot of noise and polarization issues with the signal. A parabolic really only works with a true line of sight, no obstructions.

FYI, I went through the same exercise. Tried boosters and different antennas with minimal success, for the same reason a very noise signal from trees. So I ended up with a LTE router that has a EM12 modem and Cross-polarized MIMO external antenna array. I just use cell over WiFi now instead. That setup ended up working much better for my situation. And with the correct setup you're not burning up your hotspot.

[Dr-BroadBand]

AaronMiller,

There hope even at 4mile through trees

Am sure the group can fix this!!

The more detail you share the more we can help.

What:
Modem?
Router?
Carrier?
Cell Band?

[derekjsmith]

Here is a good site for finding out which tower you're pointing at and which bands are available and pointed in your direction.

https://www.cellmapper.net

[Adm1jtg]

AaronMiller,

There hope even at 4mile through trees

Am sure the group can fix this!!

The more detail you share the more we can help.

What:
Modem?
Router?
Carrier?
Cell Band?

Definitely hope i am about 7 miles through trees and mountains but you need to give as much detail as possible so we can help you customize your solution.

[Dr-BroadBand]

Here is a good site for finding out which tower you're pointing at and which bands are available and pointed in your direction.

https://www.cellmapper.net

Cellmapper is a good starting point but things are changing fast!

Cellmapper often has out dated data. Use with caution

[AaronMiller]

I couldn't find this post so I posted another one, anyway.. I am on verizon, the tower works on band 13 and 66 however my booster doesn't work on band 66, its a phontone 5 band booster, since I am only trying to get the 13 band from the tower which is 4 miles away through trees, I turned off all the other bands and left only the LTE which would be 12, 13, and 17. The parabolic bolton 3 antenna I have outside is on my roof on a 10 foot pole so its about 30 feet off the ground. I use cell tower locator because it gives me the degrees to the tower from my connection which makes it easier to aim the bolton antenna. I have two inside antennas one is a whip and the other a panel that I just bought, and if I am more than 3 feet away my signal goes from -70 dBm to around -110 dBm. Some asked what my RssNR is and its at 0.5 dB my RsRQ is -12dB. I watched the video about how boosters are crap and from a time before what we have now. At this point I don't know what to do, I already spent over 500 dollars in apparently garbage I won't be able to pick up a signal with and I am not willing to pay 100 dollars for 20 GB of data. So how do I get internet with an antenna and whatever else I would need?

[Dr-BroadBand]

Can you bring your setup to the tower??
Do not use the booster

To do a speed test To get a baseline

What router and modem are you using??

I read your post again, so you are typing to use just your phone ???

Your numbers look ok to me could be your SIM
Verizon can be poop heads.

Is TM an option??

They have 100Gig of data for $50

What state do you live in?

Can you give more information about the cable you are using

[AaronMiller]

I went to the tower (eNodeB ID 3105) with just my phone, I was getting about -65 dBm on the other side of the road about 150 meters away from the tower no obstructions. I did a download test I was only getting about 15 Mbps, which would be fine for what I would need at my house.

I am trying to use the hotspot on my phone to connect my laptop and whatever else I want to get online with.

I live in North Idaho and in the area I am in Verizon is the only carrier that you can get a signal from. I don't have a router or modem just the phontone booster to connect to, I want something that I can just use the service I already have and enhance the signal to make it a bit better. I am already paying for satellite service that is horrible and cost way too much for what it is. I have a phone plan that would work for me through Visible, so far I have no complaints about visible its just as good as what I had through Verizon before. Could it be the sim from visible causing download issues? I have heard of Verizon throttling certain sites but I haven't heard of them throttling towers or areas, or maybe its because its through Visible?

I bought 3D-FB cable and N connectors so I can shorten the cables that came with the setup, and I don't know what cables came with the system but they look similar to the 3D-FB cables I bought. However I did order the wrong connectors so I am waiting on the right N connectors to shorten the cables. I just built a better antenna stand for my antenna however it did shorten the pole by about 4 feet but I don't think that is a huge different and worth the more secure setup I have now.

I don't know what TM is so I don't know if that's an option.

[gscheb]

T-Mobile,
They are really easy to set up for a sim card. Can use a ton of data and have no issues. Know several people that have done it. Can also check to see if you can get T-Mobile home internet as well.

[derekjsmith]

I've got both Visible and Verizon each with there own router and same antenna setup. Only difference is latency is double on Visible vs Verizon with is about 25ms. Also both will throttle your hot-spot connections vs speed test directly from your phone. I would try a less directional antenna on your booster. Just a simple log periodic you see in most applications.

[AaronMiller]

I do have an Omni directional antenna I used before for awhile that came with the booster, it did okay but nothing like the signal we have now. I know that visible caps your hot spot at 5 Mbps which is more than enough for what I would use it for, but to be able to have 5 Mbps available is what I was trying for. Is there a way I can use the booster I have and maybe cut the gain down so it would take the signal without boosting everything else like the noise? Is there a router or modem I can connect to an antenna where I don't have to have a sim card installed or pay for the service, like the booster just puts the signal out?

[derekjsmith]

Only real way to minimize noise is with a MIMO antenna setup, which boosters do not support. All LTE routers require a SIM card in the modem. As I pointed out in one of my previous posts I was at the same point as you, nosey signal and poor booster performance. So I switched over to using a LTE router as my main connection to the outside world.

[gscheb]

I do have an Omni directional antenna I used before for awhile that came with the booster, it did okay but nothing like the signal we have now. I know that visible caps your hot spot at 5 Mbps which is more than enough for what I would use it for, but to be able to have 5 Mbps available is what I was trying for. Is there a way I can use the booster I have and maybe cut the gain down so it would take the signal without boosting everything else like the noise? Is there a router or modem I can connect to an antenna where I don't have to have a sim card installed or pay for the service, like the booster just puts the signal out?

Allot of booster antennas are 75 ohm. Best to have a 50 ohm antenna. It is possible to get more than 5 Mbps with TTL settings.

[Dr-BroadBand]

I don't know what TM is so I don't know if that's an option.

Sorry TM is T-Mobile

See link
https://www.t-mobile.com/isp

Also have you looked into StarLink ??
Should be available in your area.

https://www.starlink.com

During beta, users can expect to see data speeds vary from 50Mb/s to 150Mb/s and latency from 20ms to 40ms in most locations

[AaronMiller]

Oh the only service where I am is Verizon, and sometimes with a boosted signal AT&T, but AT&T is so bad you normally can't even text message with it. I am stuck with Verizon here. I did look into starlink but they aren't available to this area yet. I do have Viasat now and its been the worst internet experience I have ever had, plus I have over a year and a half left with their contract. Unfortunately, Verizon cellular service is our best option to get any thing at our place.

The booster setup I have is all 50 ohm's, at least that is what the add said. I don't know what TLL settings are.

I keep trying to figure a different way to configure the system so it will get a better signal, I have tried turning the gain on booster down, half way, and all the way up. I tried connecting two outside antennas which would just shut the booster down. Using two indoor antennas which seems to help a very little bit inside. Aiming at other towers. Using the omni over the parabolic and vise versa, the parabolic brings in a better signal. I'm out of ideas with this system, I think its as good as it can get which isn't good enough.

[derekjsmith]

Looks like time to invest in a LTE Router. You can get a Visible account for $25 a month. Or add another line to your Verizon account. You don't need a special data plan, just an unlimited cell plan. When setup right "TTL" your not using hot-spot so no throttling.

Also it's not about getting a stronger signal, it's about getting a cleaner signal. LTE is based on MIMO circular polarization. Anything less than that and your performance can drop significantly especially in areas with lots of trees.

I did the same and re-homed my booster.

[Dr-BroadBand]

Hay

AaronMiller I feel your pain I have a friend in the same tight spot.

Your problems fixable but, unfortunately will cost more money $400 ~ $500

See link WG3526-P outdoor build.
They also have a list of parts used.

https://youtu.be/-SbNkn1161s

https://youtu.be/WMhEMOqNNwQ

[AaronMiller]

Looks like time to invest in a LTE Router. You can get a Visable account for $25 a month. Or add another line to your Verizon account. You don't need a special data plan, just an unlimited cell plan. When setup right "TTL" your not using hot-spot so no throttling.

Also it's not about getting a stronger signal, it's about getting a cleaner signal. LTE is based on MIMO circular polarization. Anything less than that and your performance can drop significantly especially in areas with lots of trees.

I did the same and re-homed my booster.

Hey Derek
You said you have a visible account for your router, I talked to Visible and they said their sim cards only work for smartphones. If I get a router or modem what would be the best one to get for my situation, any suggestions for better signal strength? I would like to do this to have wifi throughout the house and I would get an additional account just for the router. However will a router improve the cell signal of the phones in the house or just provide wifi? Is there a way to improve the signal of the cell tower to my house like what a booster is suppose to do not just provide wifi?

Also, what do you mean that you re-homed your booster?

[gscheb]

Hello,
Read thru this as beginning to start to understand.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=1286

The router set up will give the phones wifi coverage.
You hook antennas to the router that are outside kind like you would for a TV. Same concept really.

He might have mean to re-home you booster meaning to just use it for your cell phones.

You will be breaking the terms and condition of visible by doing this. But it is possible have done it several times. My uncle has been using them for like two years now for wifi.
Great for streaming and browsing the internet. I personally wouldn't recommend it for working from home.

[AaronMiller]

We don't work from home, its just for streaming and internet surfing, we aren't big gamers or anything like that. Where we used to live we had suddenlink which provided us with at the best times was 5 Mbps, and that worked well for us.

What I would like to be able to do is bring a better cellular signal into our house and we could just use our phones, but it seems its either a booster that doesn't work or a router that only provides wifi. Is there nothing else that can just bring a signal in?

[derekjsmith]

Hey Derek
You said you have a visible account for your router, I talked to Visible and they said their sim cards only work for smartphones. If I get a router or modem what would be the best one to get for my situation, any suggestions for better signal strength? I would like to do this to have wifi throughout the house and I would get an additional account just for the router. However will a router improve the cell signal of the phones in the house or just provide wifi? Is there a way to improve the signal of the cell tower to my house like what a booster is suppose to do not just provide wifi?

Also, what do you mean that you re-homed your booster?

With Visible you need to have or get one of their phones yes. But I got the cheapest handset they had $50. Then setup my Visible account, making a call and txt with the phone. Then pull the SIM from the phone and place in the LTE router. Only issue with Visible is the latency is twice that of native Verizon. FYI, this goes for any other provider if you setting up a new line, you need to make a call/txt in a phone first to properly activate the SIM on their system. If you already have a Verizon account it maybe better to just get another unlimited line with them.

For best signal strength and quality it's all up to your antenna setup and using the shortest high quality cables you can. In my case a log periodic cross polarized MIMO array. Also am just using the LTE router as a that not it's Wifi, I then have a whole home router (Mesh) I've plugged the LTE router into. Am not even using the WiFI from the LTE router have it shutoff. I hardwired the LTE Router RJ45 to my mesh router. For my mesh network I'm using a TP-Link but any good mesh system will do.

Re-homing for my booster in this case was sold it on to someone that could use it.

[AaronMiller]

Okay that makes sense, I planned on getting another account for a house phone so I will just use it for a router. I started looking for a router and there are some that say they are not verizon compatible yet they have band 13 and 66 which is what the tower uses close to my place, why wouldn't they be compatible if they can receive those bands?

[AaronMiller]

Is there a way to just use an antenna to get a better signal without a booster, router, or modem. Kind of like a stereo antenna on your vehicle or tv antenna on your house? It seems like if a booster can take a signal and boost it and transmit it without needing a sim card or paid account that having something similar with just antennas and a transmitter could be done. Like having an extra router in your house to expand your range, you don't have to pay again for what you are already suppose to be getting. Maybe I am just wishful thinking.

[Adm1jtg]

In the old days a few phones had antenna jacks in them that you could hook a passive antenna into but I havent seen anything like that for years and that was just for making calls.