Question on Flat Panel Antenna with no Line of Sight

[gabe1475]

We have our setup working and there are two main places we plan on using, Duck Creek Village in Utah and Bartlett Lake in AZ. The first seems to be dialed in with a reliable signal and decent download speed, but barely able to get a signal at Bartlett with very low data speeds 3mbps down.

The tower is located on Mt Ord which is at an elevation of 2000m 12miles away, and our location is at roughly 550m elevation. Issue is there are 1200m peaks at 1/3 the distance to the tower which prevents direct line of sight.

Initially tried a flat panel from Amazon with LMR200 equivalent cables (permanently mounted to antenna). Figured I would give the Poynting Xpol a shot with no wires and LMR240-10ft.

Any thoughts on which antenna type may work best in this scenario?

[Didneywhorl]

Landmasses blocking LOS will be a problem no matter what you use, but it sounds like your fresnel is blocked more than the dead LoS. You might do best with a higher dBi panel. Some would say a parabolic with real high power would be even better, but I'm not entirely sure they work well in non-LoS unless the obstructions are far away.

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/wifi-a ... he-magnum/

Have you looked at these: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/cellul ... connector/

[gabe1475]

Landmasses blocking LOS will be a problem no matter what you use, but it sounds like your fresnel is blocked more than the dead LoS. You might do best with a higher dBi panel. Some would say a parabolic with real high power would be even better, but I'm not entirely sure they work well in non-LoS unless the obstructions are far away.

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/wifi-a ... he-magnum/

Have you looked at these: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/cellul ... connector/

I did look at the second one you posted, at the end of the day similar gain to the Poynting Xpol, just like the aesthetics of the Xpol more and pricing was basically within $20. The other one you posted looks promising, but as you mentioned, not sure if the obstruction will negate the high gain.

Probably not much of a gain, but decided to switch to LMR400 at 15' and mount slightly higher off the ground. If that does not provide enough increase in dbi, will go keep looking for a better option.

Was just curious if anyone had feedback on which antenna type would work best in this scenario.

[Didneywhorl]

Typically I found the flat panel style worked better when the trees I had between my house and my tower were full of leaves. When leaf fall was in full effect the flat panel was similar but still edged a little better than LPDA antennas.

[Didneywhorl]

I did look at the second one you posted, at the end of the day similar gain to the Poynting Xpol...

I wouldn't say 35+% increase in gain is real similar ( 11 dBi x 1.3636 = ~15 dBi ), but I get what you mean. It's not astronomical.

For about $20 more (Not including shipping charges, The Wireless Haven is free shipping over $100) and to give up 35% increase in gain, your saying the aesthetics (which are better on the XPOL, its a good looking build - I have one ) are much more important than the specs.

To be fair the XPOL-5G has a higher frequency range, but important only if you have access to B48.


For the parabolic grid I don't have a ton of experience using through trees and over long distances, so someone else will have to chime in.

There is a parabolic grid expert in this group, but he comes and goes.

[gabe1475]

I wouldn't say 35+% increase in gain is real similar ( 11 dBi x 1.3636 = ~15 dBi ), but I get what you mean. It's not astronomical.

For about $20 more (Not including shipping charges, The Wireless Haven is free shipping over $100) and to give up 35% increase in gain, your saying the aesthetics (which are better on the XPOL, its a good looking build - I have one ) are much more important than the specs.

To be fair the XPOL-5G has a higher frequency range, but important only if you have access to B48.


For the parabolic grid I don't have a ton of experience using through trees and over long distances, so someone else will have to chime in.

There is a parabolic grid expert in this group, but he comes and goes.

on the gain, I believe 15dbi is on the higher frequencies which I will not be using on the areas that I am in. for the frequency I am targeting (B13 in both areas) in the mountains, It looks like 9db vs 9.7 (only have the documentation for the single antenna from The Wireless Haven assuming the dual has the same specs). understand what you are saying though.

[Dr-BroadBand]

The parabolic antenna can be tricky, the size is misleading, you would think it’s a large net to catch a signal with. But in fact it’s more like a laser pointer. Getting on the signal and staying on the signal is not easy.

The problem with putting your antenna higher is you need more cable. Moving to LMR400 is good, but there are still signal lost in the cable. You have very little signal to spare.

For your testing would keep your cable length to less than 2FT, put your modem/router on the pole with your antenna. Run an ethernet cable down to your computer.

This would help with seeing if PoE (Power Over Ethernet with an enclosure) is worth the hassle.

See Link for other option
https://youtu.be/kFsYem_7eZg

[gabe1475]

The parabolic antenna can be tricky, the size is misleading, you would think it’s a large net to catch a signal with. But in fact it’s more like a laser pointer. Getting on the signal and staying on the signal is not easy.

The problem with putting your antenna higher is you need more cable. Moving to LMR400 is good, but there are still signal lost in the cable. You have very little signal to spare.

For your testing would keep your cable length to less than 2FT, put your modem/router on the pole with your antenna. Run an ethernet cable down to your computer.

This would help with seeing if PoE (Power Over Ethernet with an enclosure) in worth the hassle.

See Link for other option
https://youtu.be/kFsYem_7eZg

If this was on a private property which is what we are doing up in Utah, I am all in with an enclosure housing everything, but with the lake being crowded, and leaving to go kayaking on a regular basis, not sure I feel comfortable leaving all that gear outside. That being said first test was with 200 equivalent cable, but in reality 195 per the manufacturer. Losses should be less using 15' of 400 (calculating .5db on lower frequency), also new antenna is slightly better specs then the original one I tested. Last, I probably spent less than 5 minutes setting up as we just went out for a quick fishing trip and this was all done in the back of my pickup before we got on the lake. With some time, could potentially get better signal. Appreciate the input and may end up going in that direction if we are not successful with this setup.