T-Mobile Gateway Signal Question

[gscheb]

I just built a complete setup that replaced a Tmobile 5G home internet router:
4x4 MIMO outdoor enclosure antenna
Wg3526-P router
Quectel RM502Q-AE modem
POE powered and runs damn good.
All parts from The Wireless Haven

Hello,
Currently have the T-Mobile gateway. It isn't the only set up ever had. Have had quite a few on T-Mobile phone sim cards. With the other setups with the same antennas and cables never ever had an issue with rain. The only time service would be effected is when there was extreme fog in the air.
Now have T-Mobile Gateway Home internet. Really like the price and the fact that it is a legit plan.
But now with this T-Mobile gateway every time it rains allot the signals go extremely bad. Then once it dries out again outside it all goes back to normal.
I have checked my connectors and and everything. Don't believe my installation is the issue. Seems somehow tied to the T-Mobile gateway or the service itself but that doesn't make sense to me why that matters?
Has anyone else noticed this?
What are the reasons people are choosing to replace the T-Mobile gateway?

[Didneywhorl]

I haven't seen that myself, but I replaced the gateway immediately so I don't have a comparison to see if I would have experienced it or not.

The biggest reason to replace it is to have better options for adding your own wifi network and not having to wait for the firmware to get updated to allow use of the entire router or to be able to choose NOT to use the entire router. The stability of the trashcan hasn't been great for many. The lack of band locking controls. A router case that you can actually attach antennas to and remove without adding a 3d printed base. etc, etc, etc.

[Murphy625]

I haven't seen that myself, but I replaced the gateway immediately so I don't have a comparison to see if I would have experienced it or not.

The biggest reason to replace it is to have better options for adding your own wifi network and not having to wait for the firmware to get updated to allow use of the entire router or to be able to choose NOT to use the entire router. The stability of the trashcan hasn't been great for many. The lack of band locking controls. A router case that you can actually attach antennas to and remove without adding a 3d printed base. etc, etc, etc.

Hi, I'm new here.

What alternatives are there to the T-Mobile trashcan? Are you saying I can purchase a gateway and stick the sim card from my T-mobile gateway into another brand name?

I'm having an issue with an external antenna.. I normally connect with only the Primary Signal on the B2 or B66 bands and no Secondary signal... speeds are good during the day but signal is weak.. SNR in the 5 range, RSSI in the 75 to 80 range.

I ordered a 2x2 MIMO from wavefarm, stuck it on my roof and had a huge improvement in signal quality, the problem is, once my primary signal improved, the secondary kicked in with the N71 band and my download went to near zero.

When operating on just the Primary Signal (B2 or B66), my downloads are 20 to 30 MB/s and my uploads are 3 to 4.

When I put the external antenna up, my downloads when to 1 or 2 MB/s, and my uploads went to 15 MB/s.. WTF?

I know exactly where my tower is.. I'm in the rural countryside with only trees and farm fields between me and the tower (2 miles).

Can I replace my T-Mobile gray trashcan with something that gives me more control?

[Didneywhorl]

Hi, I'm new here.

What alternatives are there to the T-Mobile trashcan? Are you saying I can purchase a gateway and stick the sim card from my T-mobile gateway into another brand name?

...

Can I replace my T-Mobile gray trashcan with something that gives me more control?

Welcome!

You can't use a typical brand name router/gateway, but you can build one with a router that uses openWRT as a base. Rooter/Goldenorb is the firmware based on openWRT of choice.

All the routers from thewirelesshaven.com are what I use, but for 5G setups I use their WG1608D-M for indoor builds and their WG3526-P for outdoor builds. The modem can be chosen as you wish, I like the Quectel RM5xx modems. These can be used with the T-mobile Home internet SIM, with the right settings.

[gscheb]

Hi, I'm new here.

What alternatives are there to the T-Mobile trashcan? Are you saying I can purchase a gateway and stick the sim card from my T-mobile gateway into another brand name?

I'm having an issue with an external antenna.. I normally connect with only the Primary Signal on the B2 or B66 bands and no Secondary signal... speeds are good during the day but signal is weak.. SNR in the 5 range, RSSI in the 75 to 80 range.

I ordered a 2x2 MIMO from wavefirm, stuck it on my roof and had a huge improvement in signal quality, the problem is, once my primary signal improved, the secondary kicked in with the N71 band and my download went to near zero.

When operating on just the Primary Signal (B2 or B66), my downloads are 20 to 30 MB/s and my uploads are 3 to 4.

When I put the external antenna up, my downloads when to 1 or 2 MB/s, and my uploads went to 15 MB/s.. WTF?

I know exactly where my tower is.. I'm in the rural countryside with only trees and farm fields between me and the tower (2 miles).

Can I replace my T-Mobile gray trashcan with something that gives me more control?

Hello,
When you say 2x2 mimo guessing you have two wires going to the T-Mobile Gateway? To what ports do you have it going to? Like L1 thru L4?
Which two is it going to?

[Murphy625]

Hello,
When you say 2x2 mimo guessing you have two wires going to the T-Mobile Gateway? To what ports do you have it going to? Like L1 thru L4?
Which two is it going to?

The modem has 5 ports, two on the top, two on the bottom, GPS port in the middle.

I connect to the two on the bottom.. that is, closest to the bottom of the gateway. Should I change it?

Does it make a difference? I was reading that the modem chooses which antennas to use on which band and can switch between all 4 any time it wants.. in other words, doesn't matter which ports you connect to.. Any antenna can be used for any band..
But that's something I'm not sure about.. I'm a HAM radio operator but I know almost nothing about these LTE modems and there's a lot of bad info out there, which is why I came to a forum that specializes in this stuff.

Thanks for your help, it means a lot.

Here's a picture of how I connect (not my picture but shows the 2 at the bottom being used)

Screenshot 2021-09-25 at 01-20-51 T-Mobile 5G Internet Gateway External Antenna Guide.png

[gscheb]

The modem has 5 ports, two on the top, two on the bottom, GPS port in the middle.

I connect to the two on the bottom.. that is, closest to the bottom of the gateway. Should I change it?

Does it make a difference? I was reading that the modem chooses which antennas to use on which band and can switch between all 4 any time it wants.. in other words, doesn't matter which ports you connect to.. Any antenna can be used for any band..
But that's something I'm not sure about.. I'm a HAM radio operator but I know almost nothing about these LTE modems and there's a lot of bad info out there, which is why I came to a forum that specializes in this stuff.

Thanks for your help, it means a lot.

Here's a picture of how I connect (not my picture but shows the 2 at the bottom being used)
Screenshot 2021-09-25 at 01-20-51 T-Mobile 5G Internet Gateway External Antenna Guide.png

Hello again,
In my experience with the T-Mobile Gateway there isn't always a correlation with signal stats it shows and performance. THERE SHOULD BE! But usually isn't.
Please try using L4 and L2 as connections for the outdoor antenna. Let us know if it helps or not. Believe these might be the two primary antenna ports. Will include picture of what two we are speaking about.

L4 & L2.PNG

[Murphy625]

Hello again,
In my experience with the T-Mobile Gateway there isn't always a correlation with signal stats it shows and performance. THERE SHOULD BE! But usually isn't.
Please try using L4 and L2 as connections for the outdoor antenna. Let us know if it helps or not. Believe these might be the two primary antenna ports. Will include picture of what two we are speaking about.
L4 & L2.PNG

Will do and I'll post back when finished.

[mtl26637]

Does it make a difference? I was reading that the modem chooses which antennas to use on which band and can switch between all 4 any time it wants.. in other words, doesn't matter which ports you connect to.. Any antenna can be used for any band..

I do not know much about your particular modem, however, most modems with multiple ports have certain frequency bands and ranges tied to those ports. The RF front end of the modem is designed to where specific frequencies are available on certain ports. Typically there is a primary port, diversity port and a couple secondary ports for additional mimo and diversity. It would be nice if the specific frequencies were published for your modem but I've never seen anything. I think its just a matter of trial and error. I would give gscheb's suggestions a try as I'm pretty sure he has had experience in playing around with the various ports with this particular modem.

[Murphy625]

Hello again,
In my experience with the T-Mobile Gateway there isn't always a correlation with signal stats it shows and performance. THERE SHOULD BE! But usually isn't.
Please try using L4 and L2 as connections for the outdoor antenna. Let us know if it helps or not. Believe these might be the two primary antenna ports. Will include picture of what two we are speaking about.
L4 & L2.PNG

Tried connecting 2 and 4, then 1 and 3, then 3 and 4, then 1 and 2... If that N71 second band kicks in, I lose all internet, even if I have a good signal on the primary.
We also rotated the antenna.. first pointing it directly at the tower I'm "supposedly" connecting to, then at another tower 90 degrees to the north that is 50% further at 2.5 miles.. then we tried rotating the antenna in 15 degree increments for a full 360..
No matter what I do, as soon as that N71 band kicks in, I lose internet.. and boy did it kick in too.. I had an SNR of 5db, which is the best I have ever seen it..

So I put the modem back together like its supposed to be, and now my problem is that its stuck on the B2 band and won't switch to B66..
Is there a gateway I can purchase that would allow me to lock in the B66 band and ignore everything else?

Oh ya, one other thing.. When I look at CellMapper, I can't find the PCI's listed in the trashcan on any of the towers.. The bands are there as it seems the only two towers within range of me all have B2 and B66, but that N71 isn't listed anywhere on any tower within 15 miles of me.. and like I said, I can't even verify the PCI numbers.. although the EARCFN matches for the two towers near me. Same EARCFN for both towers 4 miles apart.

[mtl26637]

Sounds like you are having the same issues as I have been fighting for months. For starters, cellmapper doesn't have 5G info available as far as I know so that would explain why you can't find matching PCI. Tmo service works in ENDC mode which uses a combination of 4G and 5G signals, 4G being the primary band for control signals. There is a chance that you aren't getting internet because the only connection is the 5G band, I see this on my setup. You will have to play with ports and find out what frequencies are tied to which ports. Tmo bands are usually 2, 12, 66, 71, n71. You will just have to figure out which bands are related to which antenna ports. Depending on how far you are willing to go, it would be ideal to have all ports on external antennas. I'm using the Quectel RM502Q-AE but seeing the same things at about 3 miles. You signal strength and mostly SINR play a huge role in which bands connect and what speeds you end up with.

[gscheb]

Which Software version are you showing on your Gateway? Do you have the latest one? 1.2101.00.1609

What you are describing sounds really flaky

[accomplishedPear]

I'm having a somewhat similar problem. Without the external antenna, I usually get B66 as my primary signal and N71 as secondary. When it's locked in that way, the speeds are 1 Mbps to 20 Mbps down during the day with congestion and 80-200Mbps down in the evenings and at night.

However, the N71 will drop sometimes and then speeds will drop to 1-10Mbps.

I bought 2 omnidirectional wavefarm antennas to try to do a 4X4 set up. After the antennas are installed, the primary signal becomes better in terms of bars, but the secondary signal never connects, resulting in very slow speeds.

Putting the factory antennas back, I get the secondary signal again. Why would the secondary signal not connect?

[Murphy625]

Which Software version are you showing on your Gateway? Do you have the latest one? 1.2101.00.1609

What you are describing sounds really flaky

I have the 1609..

[gscheb]

So I put the modem back together like its supposed to be, and now my problem is that its stuck on the B2 band and won't switch to B66..

Does that mean that you disconnected the outside antennas?
Have four outside antennas hooked to mine. Have to do the switcharoo game with what wire go to what ports. Just keep running speedtests to get the best performance possible. But the signal stats could literally get no better or even worse and the performance is better.

[Murphy625]

UPDATE

I made a bracket to get the antenna up another 24 inches above the roof.. Started playing with the modem again and got a bit more aggressive with my experimenting.

Tried connecting the antenna to ports 2 and 4, then 1 and 3.. Tried pointing it in different directions, even getting so bold as to point 180 degrees away from my tower to a tower 7 miles out...

At one point, I was able to get 3 bars on the Secondary Signal.. The primary was at -101db (2 bars) and the secondary was at -95db (3 bars). I had an SNR of 14 on the N71 band and signal was strong.. and yet still no internet.. couldn't even go to the speed test website, although I was able to get a google search to load once. After waiting for speed test, I was at 0.1 MB/s.

Next thing I did was to connect the antenna to ports 3 and 4 and disconnect port 1 completely.. Nothing changed..

Then I disconnected port 2 as well as port 1.. so the only thing left was ports 3 and 4 connected to my external antenna.. Wife rotated the antenna 360 degrees and when she was 180 degrees away from our tower, I got a whopping 4 bars.

Those 4 bars are on a band I've never seen before.. B12 and the signal stats are fantastic.

Unfortunately, the fastest speed I can get on it is about 20MB/s down and 3 MB/s up.. but I have to say, if it remains stable at that, I might be able to live with it.
I also called T-Mobile and the guy who answered the phone was in the USA and actually knew what bands and frequencies were! The guy had knowledge! It was like finding a Unicorn... and he understood that 3 bars on N71 should have my downloads screaming and that something must be wrong so he was creating a ticket for the tower.

He also looked at my records and said I have never connected to anything other than the tower I've always thought.. and he confirmed the location.

Oddly enough, unlike all the B2/B66 band switching the modem was doing before, it seems to be permanently stuck on B12 now, at least for last 5 hours so far. If it stays stable into the evening, I might leave it as is...

Here are my current connection stats.. these numbers are not fluctuating but maybe by 1db here and there.. it has been remarkably stable, and NO SECONDARY BAND

[gscheb]

So yeah I agree something is up with issues you are having. Band 12 is a lower frequency able to travel farther. Which is why you can get it pointed the wrong way. With it being a lower frequency it will be slower as well.
Hopefully this is just a tower needing repaired.

[Murphy625]

So yeah I agree something is up with issues you are having. Band 12 is a lower frequency able to travel farther. Which is why you can get it pointed the wrong way. With it being a lower frequency it will be slower as well.
Hopefully this is just a tower needing repaired.

Midnight on the B12 band, screen grab below. That's not too bad.. My previous record was 81 MB/s on the B66 band at 2am in the morning.. Primary Signal only of course. Problem is that I have to keep the signal weak or that secondary signal band kicks in and I'm screwed. Then, when conditions become less than optimal, my signal gets too weak and I start dropping 50% of the packets.

Hopefully they'll get this fixed..

Oh ya, one other thing I forget to mention.. With ports 1 and 2 disconnected, and the external antenna hooked to ports 3 and 4, I still got both the primary and secondary signals with the external antenna when I pointed it at the tower.

B12.jpg

[gscheb]

Seen both connections to L4 only. Believe L4 is the primary.

[mtl26637]

I dont think there is anything to 'fix'. What you are seeing is what would be expected from connecting an external antenna to only certain ports. B12 is a low frequency band, therefore, you will hardly ever see a secondary connection to the 5G band n71 since it is also a low frequency band. In my neck of the woods (and more than likely most) the 5G band is great for upload speeds but your download speeds are mainly tied to your 4G signal and quality. Fluctuations in strength and SINR will change drastically with every different combination of aggregated signals. You might see a great SINR on say band 66 but when it connects to n71 the SINR drops to nothing. This is because its no longer using all sources of signal for that single band and having to share resources. I'm surprised there isn't some type of datasheet floating around showing which ports are low/mid/high frequencies. Thats whats really needed imo.