Help needed with TheWirelessHaven store cart

[AlteredLogic]

I'm trying to buy a u.fl pcb to sma male adapter cable for my setup but I can only buy one and it won't let me increase the quantity in My Cart. My objective is to use the adapter cables to connect the 4x4 mimo flat panel antenna enclosure connectors to my 5G modem which has sma female connectors.

[Didneywhorl]

@AlteredLogic This one?
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/cable ... e-adapter/

Which device are you using?

I've tested on desktop, and android, and can update it just fine.

On mobile you have to hit the "enter" key on the keyboard to get it to update. Desktop has an update cart button, and using the 'enter' key after adjusting the value works as well.

If your cart page shows double carts, refresh the page.

[AlteredLogic]

@Didneywhorl It doesn't appear to be the same page, this is what I was looking at https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/cable ... r-pigtail/ I see on your link it does allow you to add more but mine doesn't have an option. I got a intsy Connect RM520N-GL modem in a usb enclosure that's sealed so the sma female connectors are coming out of the case the modem is in so I was looking for a cable to connect the WH 4x4 mimo panel antenna u.fl connectors to the sma ports on the usb enclosure.

[Didneywhorl]

Ahhhh, there is only one in stock, that's why.


The one Iinked will work. Simple screw on and clip on the internal u.fl antenna connector. Maybe add some hot glue or similar non permanent adhesive to make sure it stays on.

[AlteredLogic]

Ha ha wow my bad, thanks for pointing that out, I thought if there was just one it would say like '1 left in stock' or something. Nice that's good to hear, thank you for letting me know. Do you have any opinions on the intsy Connect 4x4 mimo binoculars (2 small yagis on top and 2 big yagis below them, both in a upside down V formation)? I was thinking WH 4x4 mimo panel would be better in a wooded area but they seem pretty confident in their product.

[Didneywhorl]

Ha ha wow my bad, thanks for pointing that out, I thought if there was just one it would say like '1 left in stock' or something. Nice that's good to hear, thank you for letting me know. Do you have any opinions on the intsy Connect 4x4 mimo binoculars (2 small yagis on top and 2 big yagis below them, both in a upside down V formation)? I was thinking WH 4x4 mimo panel would be better in a wooded area but they seem pretty confident in their product.

Honestly, paying $454 for 4 LPDA antennas is kinda expensive. I get that they have cool 3d printed mount for the antennas, but I personally don't think the Dual V arrangement is the right thing. I'm no RF engineer, and neither is Nick, but I think there are better ways to arrange. I personally prefer a stacked configuration

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You can get four of these: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... l-antenna/

Plus a made in the US J-Pole: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... -36in-usa/

For $276 shipped. No Tax (outside of TN) and no shipping charges. (Unless you want faster than standard shipping )



That said, a single 4x4 MIMO panel is better for most general scenarios, except for clear sky to tower at extreme distances. That is where the higher gain LDPAs with narrower beamwidth would likely shine. Otherwise, I'd go with the simple to mount and aim panel antenna. No crazy mount, simple to aim, and better performance in a wider range of locations.

Convenience link : https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... z-antenna/

My 2 cents.

[Didneywhorl]

Still over $100 more to buy the wing thing versus buying 4 antennas yourself and a J-Pole to mount it on. I've seen the configuration. I really am not a fan, theoretical functionally, but it looks cool.

I wouldn't mount it to a pcv vent stack on the house.

You can definitely power it all with the splitters the haven has. The 4-pin to power plug adapter would be needed, but that's it. Wireless Haven has those too.

I think if they sell a 30 foot usb cable, then you should be fine using that and keeping the router indoors. It can be configured either way with the 4x4 mimo enclosure. You'll have to remove the routers metal case though. Too big.

[AlteredLogic]

Yeah it would be more of a convenience thing if I got it, I could just slot the modem straight into it and done. The router and modem in the 4x4 mimo panel antenna though is something I've been wanting to do for awhile. He does testing on the antennas he uses so I have no doubt they are good but I do think the panel would be better with the wall of trees I have in all directions.

That sucks, I have nowhere to put it then, do you have any suggestions? I do have my back deck that I could maybe mount it on the railing or one of the wood posts attached to the railing but its a couple feet below where the pvc pipe is.

That's good news, yeah I saw WH has the 4 pin splitter, I would just probably re-use the splitter that came with the router but its nice to know where I can find a replacement.

Okay, thanks for letting me know I was wondering as well if I would have to remove the routers case. I got a 30 ft ethernet cable from Monoprice, do you think that will work outside connected to WH's 4x4 panel mimo antenna enclosure then ran inside to the POE injector?

[Didneywhorl]

As long as the cable is outdoor rated, it'll be fine. You can use up to 300 feet for 48V PoE. I don't really recommend over 100-150 feet.

[AlteredLogic]

Okay I'll have a look at the cable to make sure, that's good to know thank you. VSWR on their antennas are about 1.6, I don't know the gain though. The 4x4 mimo panel had a spike on VSWR at n71 downlink and uplink which was I think 3.5-4.5 or something, what are your thoughts on that?

[Didneywhorl]

Do they have the VSWR charts of the intsy antenna as a whole, tested in the full 4x4 config? I think they only have the charts for an individual LPDA antenna isolated. Not really a fair comparison considering the purpose of VSWR testing, and not a true to use test chart.

BUT if they have some testing done and charts, I'd love to nerd out over it.

[AlteredLogic]

I believe it was just one antenna but the one antenna was in the full 4x4 config, 620 mhz-2600mhz it was around 1.6 VSWR. I don't think they have any charts, he was using a device to measure VSWR so there was a chart on the screen of it.

[Didneywhorl]

I tried to find the charts, do you have a link?

[AlteredLogic]

It was through their Support, it was in video form that he showed me. I compared it to WH's antenna charts and not one has better VSWR from what I saw on his digital chart, one thing they could have on it is more gain because I don't know how much gain their antenna has. Basically it sits under two VSWR from 600mhz to 2600mhz except for four instances but it doesn't go past three VSWR

[Didneywhorl]

Only one way to know for sure

I would rather it be tested in a chamber for comparing charts between antennas. BUT all of that means zero if the real world testing shows better use case performance.

VSWR tells a part of the story of an antennas capability, but can be misleading in the overall picture. There are antennas with good return losses that are not very good transmitters, and vice versa. I am not an RF engineer, so I tend to look at charts for Gain and VSWR to see if there are any glaring issues, then I test for myself in the field within the parameters of my own use cases.
I tend to not often promote or back anything that either I haven't personally tested, or doesn't have professionally tested charts to publish; especially when I've neither.
Sometimes they don't have them. Sometimes they just haven't posted them.
In the case of antennas mounted in close proximity, there really should be testing done with all antennas mounted as it is used to get an idea of the true performance per the testing parameters.

Get whichever you think is better and give it a go.

[AlteredLogic]

Thank you for trying to explain it to me. I'm trying to make the best decision I can but its rough with the lack of info and knowledge on the subject so I appreciate you filling in the gaps. Yeah I'd like to have a test with all four too but I don't know if they can do that or not. Ughh its so frustrating ha ha, I wanted to have this picked out and here by now. I appreciate the help as always, I guess I'll keep thinking on it.

[Didneywhorl]

No worries! That's why were all here!

Honestly until you get something in hand it's hard to know one from the other.

The 4x4 panel and it's 2x2 cousins I have used for over 4 years now, personally. LPDA antennas have been used from various sources for about the same amount of time. Everyone seems to have their own LPDA and it's really hard to say any one is different than the other, they all seem to be about the same.
So I usually break it down into two things.
1: Is it new, and/or has anyone used it in and can vouch for it in some way?
2: Does it have a specific use case?

1 is self explanatory. It's about finding trusted sources of info.

2 breaks down into two general categories that are my generic rules of antenna use. 1: Direct line of site from antenna to tower? LPDA style should be better. 2: Trees and stuff in the way between antenna and tower? Flat panel directional should be better.
There are exceptions, but to find the exceptions you need to have both styles on hand and test in as many ways there on the site as possible to find the best antenna for the site. If you don't have that luxury, then the general rules are my go to.

VSWR and gain charts can help distinguish between antennas of similar type, but it gets pretty muddy when dealing with different antenna types and especially when you aren't given complete information.

[AlteredLogic]

Yeah its unfortunate I can't get them all and test. The 4x4 mimo 5g binoculars I don't think I've seen any reviews about it, intsy made it clear though I can get whatever antenna I want but they are also confident in their product. I probably got 50 trees almost stacked back to back just around the house in one direction not to mention beyond the house so I feel like the panel would have the advantage too. Very nice breakdown, that's pretty easy to follow and makes my decision a little bit easier. That's basically the problem right now, not enough info on the antennas for sure. I've pivoted to a reddit favorite in the Waveform 4x4 Mimo panel antenna, it seems promising and appears to have solid VSWR and gain. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0358/ ... 1655220435

[AlteredLogic]

The waveform antenna has better VSWR and about the same gain as WH's antennas from what I'm reading from that. I'd think with the higher VSWR the WH's antenna has then the extra db gain it has on the waveform in band 71 would be negated, right?

[Didneywhorl]

Not exactly. VSWR and Gain would mirror each others trend if this were the case, making having two separate tests kind of moot.

Again, I'm no RF engineer, but I would say that in a particular frequency range if an antenna tests a gain of X with a VSWR of Y you can possibly assume that if that antenna had a better VSWR then the Gain would go up. So the gain is still that gain, it just could be better if the vswr was improved.

[AlteredLogic]

I'm real confused now, what I've read is if the VSWR is too high it can damage the radio so you want it under two preferably, the higher VSWR you have the less return loss you get which from what I'm seeing that isn't good. So for the WH's antenna it could be considered poorly matched at n71 because the VSWR exceeds 2, if its under 2 then its a good match.

[Didneywhorl]

I've never seen a radio damaged from any antennas rated in the cellular ranges.

The WH 4x4 MIMO panel has been sold for over like five years. I got my first one from ltefix in 2018. Feb 2018 I think.

I think your overthinking the details, but I'm also not you. You do you.

I would just buy one and rock on....or both, and return the one you don't like.

[AlteredLogic]

I have no doubt that the WH 4x4 mimo panel is solid, I'm not bashing it at all, I just want to make sure the money is well spent for my use case for n71 and n25.

I probably am and I appreciate you continuing to stick it out with me and answer my questions

I might be able to do that I'll have to see how the prices line up, so you said the u.fl to sma male adapter would work, is there an advantage using it over the out of stock pigtail?

[Didneywhorl]

No worries, I know you aren't bashing anything. I get a little analysis paralysis myself and can see a bit of it in others sometimes.

There's no cable, so it'll click right on. You may want to glue them down though, just in case.

Honestly the adapter inside is just this: https://amzn.to/3YHBGUY with an RM520 and some MHF4 to SMA female bulkhead antenna pigtails inside of a 3d printed case. If you can avoid adding another cable, I would. The caps are the closest you'll get without popping the thing out and just getting cable adapters like these: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/acces ... adapter-2/

[AlteredLogic]

I appreciate that thank you very much, yeah it can be a strength sometimes then in others it can take up a lot of time.

Alright cool, sounds pretty simple.

Actually that's what I thought too but instead of usb a male they are using a usb c female on this adapter for the RM520. Okay sounds good, I honestly thought about popping it open but I don't want to screw up the MHF4 connections in there. Thank you for all your help

[Didneywhorl]

...
Actually that's what I thought too but instead of usb a male they are using a usb c female on this adapter for the RM520. ...

Ahhh, they updated it to a new adapter. I don't have the new intsy RM520 version myself. The previous versions had the other adapter inside. I cracked mine open.

[AlteredLogic]

Yeah they did, not sure if its better than the other one but the usb c should be faster theoretically I guess. If you have the 4G version you can upgrade to it for $630 plus shipping, if you have 5G version its much cheaper. You rebel lol, might give it a try if I'm feeling adventurous.

[AlteredLogic]

Do I apply the glue once I clip the adapter onto the connector to the 4x4 mimo panel? Want to make sure I don't mess up the connectors for the antenna and the adapter.

[Didneywhorl]

After its all in place and ready to close up. On top of the i.gl connector, to anvhor it to the sma connector.

Use a removable glue like hot glue.

[AlteredLogic]

Alright thank you, once again I appreciate the help and answering all my questions, hopefully everything will work out