4x4 mimo mixed setup signal

[matrx10503]

Ok, so I have a modem capable of 4x4 mino.
I've had a 2x2 external flat panel antenna and just recently added 2 separate paddle/blade style (they sit by the window) to make it 4 antennas receiving.
Now i'm skeptic of how much my external antenna really is helping :-/
I have an OnePlus 8 phone, which has a 4x4 antenna setup in it also. I know modern phones have pretty powerful antennas....but i'd image my external antenna is suppose to be of difference? I'm getting around the same signal readings no matter the antenna (phone, external, and the blades in the house).

I've attached my modem readings. You can see all the antennas pulling in signal.
So if readings are right....my antenna components are cheap or the wiring is cheap?

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[Didneywhorl]

Need more details.

What modem?
What router (less important, but still)?
What antenna?
What type cables and length?
Any extra connectors between antenna and modem?
What ports are each type antennas connected to on the modem?

When comparing the phone to the modem, you are 100% certain they are connected to the exact same bands and cell tower? 100% sure?
Where are you getting your phones RSRP, RSRP and SINR from?...or are you going on bars for the phone?

You do have pretty bad signal strength (RSRP over 100). The secondary pair are def getting lesser signal than the primary pair if I'm reading that right.

[matrx10503]

Hello, over the course of time, i've done the best testing I could while changing the least variables as possible. I have come to 2 general conclusions and 1 main overall conclusion

Main conclusion:
My tablet plan is half the speed of my phone plan speeds. I have never gotten over 100Mbps with tablet plan and just pulled 200Mbps (for the first time ever!) in my phone using a mvno carrier sim.

Sub-conclusions:
Regarding the antenna stuff. I've come to the conclusion overall my external mimo is working as intended.
I did a lot of basic a/b testing. I tested with my inside blade antennas and then tested with only the external mimo hooked up. Did it a few times and basically saw the difference overall.

Now digressing back to the antenna vs phone thing.....I observed all the variables of signal quality, numbers, which bands, towers, etc etc. with my external antennas and with my phone sitting inside the house, in a window to get max bars.
The RSRP numbers of my phone are SLIGHTTTTYYYY better than my external antenna (11dBi high gain).
Overall i'd call it a draw but technically the phone wins by the numbers.
I'm getting pretty much the best that the tower can give either way it seems.

But this is the reason I thought I was having antenna/signal quality issues [I knew my phone wasn't getting that much better signal but getting almost double the speed]
In hindsight, I know its plan related. I'm getting the same signal, but half the speed with only minimal variables changed when testing.

[Didneywhorl]

It could also be that the antenna is getting equal frequency reception from multiple towers, causing a form of RF noise called 'cross-talk'. Basically if you have more that one source broadcasting the same general frequency ranges, the receiver can see them all but on ly use the one it's linked to. The others are seen as confusing noise, thus lowering the quality metrics.

Good work on the plan type speed differences. That is pretty valuable troubleshooting information. Does each SIM type use a different APN? Which carrier is this? ATT based on your screenshots MNC code of 410.

[matrx10503]

It could also be that the antenna is getting equal frequency reception from multiple towers, causing a form of RF noise called 'cross-talk'. Basically if you have more that one source broadcasting the same general frequency ranges, the receiver can see them all but only use the one it's linked to. The others are seen as confusing noise, thus lowering the quality metrics.

Good work on the plan type speed differences. That is pretty valuable troubleshooting information. Does each SIM type use a different APN? Which carrier is this? ATT based on your screenshots MNC code of 410.

I'm "in the woods" (hence the lte internet setup) so its only 3 towers I think "around me" and I think I only really can reach 1.
Looking up the tower info, it shows to be around 6 mi. away with trees in between. I have not confirmed if the tower is at higher or lower elevation though. Regardless the l-o-s is affected by trees for sure, but the tower not being that far away helps.
And technically I don't "need" more speed.....that's why they say ignorance is bliss. I guess its just now the fact that I know i'm a half the speed possible.

And yes of course they use different APNs and yes, you are correct this is all @tt signal
tablet apn: broadband
mvno phone apn: ereseller (i'd guess the other ones like nxtgenphone are the same)

[matrx10503]

[[UPDATE]]
>>I was wrong about the speed differences<<
The mnvo and tablet plan are pulling in the same speeds. I got my best speedtest so far, 238Mbps. Back to back with mvno sim, then tablet sim tested.
So my router is bottle-necking.
No updates on the reason yet. To be determined (if possible)

[matrx10503]

2024 Resurrection Update:
I decided to tackle this issue again and this time I definitively figured it out. It was all related to signal quality. SINR to be exact.
Whenever I get around 15-20 sinr, I can achieve speeds of 100+Mbps

I unhooked my mimo external antenna and just hooked up the stock whip antennas that come with the router. I then went to the widow in the house that got the best SINR from my phone. Started the router up and i'm pulling 223Mbps as we speak consistently. If 4x4 mimo mode kicks in, who knows how fast it will max out at.

So its kinda crazy that in hindsight I never needed an external antenna. Now I have to decide if I want to keep the external and relocate it to the area where the best SINR signal is. Doesn't seem like worth the effort, I was good with 70-80Mbps, so 200+Mbps is more than I could ever imagined.

[Didneywhorl]

2024 Resurrection Update:
So its kinda crazy that in hindsight I never needed an external antenna.

So much this. Many times when SINR and RSRQ is an issue, the outdoor antenna (if even needed) has to be installed in a carefully surveyed and tested location. Sometimes in a spot you would NEVER believe was the best spot, like three feet off the ground against a wall of the house, near a corner, where the driveway is .. etc etc.

[BillA]

2024 Resurrection Update:
I decided to tackle this issue again and this time I definitively figured it out. It was all related to signal quality. SINR to be exact.
Whenever I get around 15-20 sinr, I can achieve speeds of 100+Mbps

I unhooked my mimo external antenna and just hooked up the stock whip antennas that come with the router. I then went to the widow in the house that got the best SINR from my phone. Started the router up and i'm pulling 223Mbps as we speak consistently. If 4x4 mimo mode kicks in, who knows how fast it will max out at.

So its kinda crazy that in hindsight I never needed an external antenna. Now I have to decide if I want to keep the external and relocate it to the area where the best SINR signal is. Doesn't seem like worth the effort, I was good with 70-80Mbps, so 200+Mbps is more than I could ever imagined.

While external antennas will help in most cases, there are many variables which come into play in achieving high speeds.
Location, frequency bands, signal quality, and loss in cables are the main variables.
The strongest signal is not always better, I've seen cases where a couple of bars of a clean signal can do higher speed than 5 full bars.
Even with the best MIMO antennas, due to low quality or long cables the signal loss will be greater than the gain from the antennas.
No wonder why phones with their small built-in antennas can often achieve higher speeds than external antennas sitting right next to it.
Phones have highly tuned antennas with SWR close to 1 (Standing Wave Ratio), and are very close to the modem chip with minimal signal loss.
As they say, bigger is not always better (well it could be in the bedroom ha-ha;)

Regarding phone/data plans, usually post-paid plans have a higher network priority then prepaid/MVNO.
I've seen full speeds on both, but on prepaid/MVNO plans it usually drop significantly during peak hours (9am-9pm).