Tmobile all bands slow upload, but super fast download

[macuseri686]

Hi, so ive been using Tmobile magenta max LTE internet for the last year or so and im trying to tweak things to get better upload right now. Currently i get about 50-80mbps down but 0.5-3.0mbps up using speedtest.net or fast.com. Here is my current setup:

• wg1608 router running WiFiX GoldenOrb_2022-03-23 (custom TTL set to 65 to avoid tmobile's hotspot detection and hotspot mode data cap)

• quectel rm502q-ae modem Revision: RM502QAEAAR11A02M4G

• 4x 10ft lmr195 cable (i have now ordered 4x 10ft times microwave lmr400 but still waiting on it)

• 4×4 MIMO Antenna 600-3800MHz Cellular 8dBi Directional https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... z-antenna/

• 4x wilson m2m direct connect 5 band inline amplifiers (i just got these recently and they really helped my csq, rsrp and rssi but havent done a thing for the actual speeds) (i should probably also mention that these are NOT the weboost amplifiers that have an antenna outside and another inside. these are designed to be connected inline between each of the modems antenna ports and the panel antenna) https://www.wilsonamplifiers.com/wilson ... it-460119/

The tower is 10 miles away on a mountain with geographical line of sight at a 3 degree antenna tilt up. My current signal numbers are:

Code: Select all

CSQ: 26
Signal Strength: 83%
RSSI: -61 dBm
RSRQ: -13 dB
RSRP: -90 dBm
SINR: 6dB
Bands: b12 (5mhz up | 5mhz down), b2 (CA 20mhz down)

Ive tried all the bands in different combinations (b71, b12, b2, b4, b66, b41). they all have below 1mbps upload except b71 and b12. Currently the best combination that works for me is having b12 as my primary band and carrier aggregating b2. The b12 band gives only 5mhz up and down while b2 has 20mhz up and down, but im able to get 3mbps upload and 7mbps down on b12 but only the 0.5 mbps upload on b2. b2 gives me super fast download though like 70mbps. so if i set b12 as primary i can get the 3mbps upload from it (carrier aggregation bands are only download) and then CA the b2 for its download, i can get the 80 down and 3 up.

Heres my question: what numbers do i need to focus on to improve the upload? all the signal numbers seem good to me. i thought the wilson amplifiers would help with upload since they would add like 15dB to the tx power, but i havent seen any change at all in the speed test. ive ordered a 30dB high gain grid parabolic 2x2 mimo antenna https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08R6Q13G5?ps ... ct_details that should be here on friday. im gonna try it out on each of the 2 antenna pairs and see if it makes any difference vs the 8db panel antenna. any ideas to get a decent normal upload speed? anything above 10mbps up is what im aiming for. why would my download speed and signal be great, but my upload be SOOO low comparatively?

[mtl26637]

any ideas to get a decent normal upload speed? anything above 10mbps up is what im aiming for. why would my download speed and signal be great, but my upload be SOOO low comparatively?

Because most providers think that we do not care about upload speeds so they focus most on getting their download speeds as high as possible. Upload speeds are becoming more important these days, IMO.

With T-mobile I would focus more on available bands to start. Is it possible to take the setup closer to tower for testing? That may save a lot of headache is so. You could try different band combinations and not have to worry so much about signal. Once you know what bands are providing your upload/download numbers you can work on getting that particular band strength higher at your residence. I know at my location I have 4G bands 2, 12, 66, 71 and 5G bands n41, n71. Upload speeds are normal/low on all bands except on n71. n41 give very high downloads in 300-600 mbps but no help with upload. On the other hand n71 gives average "4G" speeds on download but was up to 100 mbps or so on uploads so its all what is available on what bands.

Just need to somehow play with speedtests and various available bands without having to worry with signal strengths at first if at all possible.

[gscheb]

If you decide to try out the panel antenna check up load on band 2. You listed what bands you tried but not stats for each. What was the signal strength for band 2? If it is like -112 or worse that is your issue.
I always got best upload on band 2 with the 20 MHz of data on it. Always needed like a signal strength of -106 or better.

[macuseri686]

thanks for the input. will post back results after i get the lmr400 and the grid parabolic antenna

My RSSI signal strength for b2 is -87dBm

Heres the stats for each of those bands. I have manually selected just 1 band at a time and ran a speed test:

b2 (20mhz up and down): 70mbps down, 0.5mbps up
b4 (10mhz up and down): 30mbps down, 0.5mbps up
b12 (5mhz up and down): 7mbps down, 3mbps up
b41 (10mhz up and down): 20mbps down, 0.5mbps up
b66 (10mhz up and down): 30mbps down, 0.5mbps up
b71 (5mhz up and down): 9mbps down, 2.5mbps up

what confuses me most is why the download works fine but the upload is almost negligible. like, the signal strength and quality must be good enough to sustain high data transfer speeds if the download is working so well, whats the deal with the upload?

yes, it is possible to take the setup closer for testing. but it would just be the router box with paddle antennas. im not gonna try and move the directional antenna off my roof lol. i know that my upload does work on a different tower if i take the router into the city ive gotten 20mbps down just with paddle antennas

[macuseri686]

for band 2? If it is like -112 or worse that is your issue.
I always got best upload on band 2 with the 20 MHz of data on it. Always needed like a signal strength of -106 or better.

Out of curiosity what were download speeds and upload speeds like on b2 for you when you had signal worse than -112? did you have good download with like 0 upload? or were they both bad?

[Rich Hathaway]

Try to disable IPV6 and see if that doesn't speed up your ul speeds a bit.

[mtl26637]

yes, it is possible to take the setup closer for testing. but it would just be the router box with paddle antennas. im not gonna try and move the directional antenna off my roof lol. i know that my upload does work on a different tower if i take the router into the city ive gotten 20mbps down just with paddle antennas

Yes that is what I mean. Paddle antennas will do just fine if you take to the tower. You are basically cutting out all of the variables that are based on signal strength and noise. If you are close to the tower and in general line of site then you don't have to worry about signal strengths, you can focus on what bands deliver what. Once you know whats what you can then work on getting that particular band/frequency at your residence. Also when talking upload vs. download you have to realize that the equipment at the tower is broadcasting using much higher power equipment to reach you vs. your small router sending signals back to the tower. Plus signals from the tower can be using MIMO and carrier aggregation levels that are much higher than the MIMO and carrier aggregation taking place on your uploads back to the tower. Thats just the way they have designed it, providers are much more interested in getting the data to you.

[macuseri686]

Yes that is what I mean. Paddle antennas will do just fine if you take to the tower. You are basically cutting out all of the variables that are based on signal strength and noise. If you are close to the tower and in general line of site then you don't have to worry about signal strengths, you can focus on what bands deliver what. Once you know whats what you can then work on getting that particular band/frequency at your residence.

ok, roger that. will try to get out to the tower today or tomorrow. will post my results back here.

Also when talking upload vs. download you have to realize that the equipment at the tower is broadcasting using much higher power equipment to reach you vs. your small router sending signals back to the tower. Plus signals from the tower can be using MIMO and carrier aggregation levels that are much higher than the MIMO and carrier aggregation taking place on your uploads back to the tower. Thats just the way they have designed it, providers are much more interested in getting the data to you.

ahhhhh, ok, yeah, that does put things into perspective. guess ive got to massively increase my transmit power. i was hoping that the wilson amplifiers would at least have SOME impact on my transmit power though. my signal numbers improved a LOT, but nothing changed in terms of download or upload speed. is there a way to measure my transmit signal as received by the tower? like does the tower send that info back to me somehow? all the signal numbers i can see are just the received signal, right?

[macuseri686]

Try to disable IPV6 and see if that doesn't speed up your ul speeds a bit.

Already have it disabled, as i needed ipv4 only in order to play Battlefield 4 properly

[gscheb]

for band 2? If it is like -112 or worse that is your issue.
I always got best upload on band 2 with the 20 MHz of data on it. Always needed like a signal strength of -106 or better.

Out of curiosity what were download speeds and upload speeds like on b2 for you when you had signal worse than -112? did you have good download with like 0 upload? or were they both bad?

So using bands 2 and 12. With band 2 being primary with signal strength of -115 would get about 50 down and 2.4 up.

[macuseri686]

for band 2? If it is like -112 or worse that is your issue.
I always got best upload on band 2 with the 20 MHz of data on it. Always needed like a signal strength of -106 or better.

Out of curiosity what were download speeds and upload speeds like on b2 for you when you had signal worse than -112? did you have good download with like 0 upload? or were they both bad?

So using bands 2 and 12. With band 2 being primary with signal strength of -115 would get about 50 down and 2.4 up.

that sounds about right from what ive seen on this tower

[gscheb]

Out of curiosity what were download speeds and upload speeds like on b2 for you when you had signal worse than -112? did you have good download with like 0 upload? or were they both bad?

So using bands 2 and 12. With band 2 being primary with signal strength of -115 would get about 50 down and 2.4 up.

that sounds about right from what ive seen on this tower

Once I got band 2 to signal strength to -102 to -104 the upload speeds went to 16 to 22 up then.
My tower is a little less than 5 miles away using a mimo grid antenna.

[macuseri686]

Welp, just got back from my visit to the tower. Wasn’t very successful unfortunately. I got about as close as I could to the tower - about 1 mile away and I could even see the tower with my eyes, but for whatever reason, I got worse signal with the paddle antennas. I had about a -91 rssi and -4 sinr on b12, and even worse -105 rssi on b2 and -8 sinr. Maybe the antennas on the tower just weren’t angled down enough for where I was standing? My download speed was 3mbps and upload 0.12mbps on b12 and couldn’t get a Speedtest to work on b2. Oh well

[macuseri686]

It wasn’t all bad though. I did get some epic pictures of an old train bridge on the way

[mtl26637]

That is extremely surprising. Usually when you are in the "near field" of the transmitter your antennas don't come into play. Not even line of site matters much when your that close. The only thing I can think of is that maybe you were exactly at the edge of the towers transmitting antenna's? Typical towers have triangular shaped mounts that have the antennas angle at 120 degrees. If you are at the "point" of that mount then your signal can be low but..

Sorry things didn't work out on your trip, I wasn't expecting it to be that hard to get to the tower, lol. Those are some awesome pics though!

[macuseri686]

So, i got the grid parabolic 2x2 mimo antenna in today. its raining outside, so i dont really feel like todays results are the best case scenario, and also i did a rush job in terms of mounting and aligning the antenna. ive also got a 2x2 10dbi panel antenna for the second set of antennas coming out of the modem. the grid parabolic antenna is hooked up to the primary pair.

For the first time im actually getting more than 0.5mbps upload on b2! its up to 3mbps now for b2. b12 saw no change in upload or download, i suspect since its only 5mhz and was already at its max. although the sinr and csq did improve a bit for b12. will post my full results back after i get a chance to properly align the antenna and the rain is gone

[macuseri686]

One thing I’ve noticed about the grid parabolic mimo antenna is that 1 antenna gets really good rsrp and the other gets about 5db less rsrp. Is that something wrong with the antenna? Is that simply a normal result of antenna cross polarization, such that the second antenna normally gets worse signal? Or is it because the dish isn’t a complete circle and the second antenna is polarized in the direction where the dish has less radius, and thus gets less focused signal?

[gscheb]

One thing I’ve noticed about the grid parabolic mimo antenna is that 1 antenna gets really good rsrp and the other gets about 5db less rsrp. Is that something wrong with the antenna? Is that simply a normal result of antenna cross polarization, such that the second antenna normally gets worse signal? Or is it because the dish isn’t a complete circle and the second antenna is polarized in the direction where the dish has less radius, and thus gets less focused signal?

Hello,
Yes more than likely the dish reflection. If you want it to be more equal make to two polarized direction toward the corners. So instead of vertical polarization at vertical make it at 45 degrees. So each one gets the same reflection.
Now if you decide not to angle it make sure the stronger vector is attached to the primary antenna connection.

[macuseri686]

One thing I’ve noticed about the grid parabolic mimo antenna is that 1 antenna gets really good rsrp and the other gets about 5db less rsrp. Is that something wrong with the antenna? Is that simply a normal result of antenna cross polarization, such that the second antenna normally gets worse signal? Or is it because the dish isn’t a complete circle and the second antenna is polarized in the direction where the dish has less radius, and thus gets less focused signal?

Hello,
Yes more than likely the dish reflection. If you want it to be more equal make to two polarized direction toward the corners. So instead of vertical polarization at vertical make it at 45 degrees. So each one gets the same reflection.
Now if you decide not to angle it make sure the stronger vector is attached to the primary antenna connection.

Thank you . yeah, i think id rather not divide the signal strength between the two antennas and attenuate the maximum strength that i can potentially get with one of them. I actually just got done with swapping antenna ports around to get the stronger signal ones connected to their respective primary antenna connectors before i read this reply. after adjusting that, im now getting 4.5-5mbps up on b2! making progress!

[gscheb]

One thing I’ve noticed about the grid parabolic mimo antenna is that 1 antenna gets really good rsrp and the other gets about 5db less rsrp. Is that something wrong with the antenna? Is that simply a normal result of antenna cross polarization, such that the second antenna normally gets worse signal? Or is it because the dish isn’t a complete circle and the second antenna is polarized in the direction where the dish has less radius, and thus gets less focused signal?

Hello,
Yes more than likely the dish reflection. If you want it to be more equal make to two polarized direction toward the corners. So instead of vertical polarization at vertical make it at 45 degrees. So each one gets the same reflection.
Now if you decide not to angle it make sure the stronger vector is attached to the primary antenna connection.

Thank you . yeah, i think id rather not divide the signal strength between the two antennas and attenuate the maximum strength that i can potentially get with one of them. I actually just got done with swapping antenna ports around to get the stronger signal ones connected to their respective primary antenna connectors before i read this reply. after adjusting that, im now getting 4.5-5mbps up on b2! making progress!

Ok, what is the signal stats now?

[macuseri686]

Ive finished micro adjusting the antennas now.

For b2 which is what im using as my primary band now, im getting:

Code: Select all

CSQ: 14, 
Signal Strength: 54%, 
RSSI: -82dbm, 
RSRQ: -14db, 
RSRP: -106dbm, -110dbm (2x2 grid parabolic antenna) and -117 dBm, -127dBm (2x2 panel antenna)
SINR: between 2-4db

Ive also tested both without and with the amplifiers connected now using the new antenna, and i can see 0 difference in the speed test still either way. the amps only help the CSQ, signal strength, RSSI and, RSRP. they dont change the SINR or RSRQ at all. they also surprisingly dont seem to affect transmit power (because the upload speed stays the same), although i have no way to see what the transmit power that the tower can see is, but the amps make 0 difference to upload speed. the grid parabolic antenna has so far made the biggest difference to upload speed, as ive gone from 0.5mbps up to 4.5mbps up.

[gscheb]

It is a good jump. 4.5 is a useable speed. With how that signal goes a change of just a couple digits can make a huge difference.
These are my current stats on band 2.
RSRP -104 dBm
SNR 20 dB
RSRQ -12 dB
RSSI -75 dBm

Just got 19 up with it.
But like I said before the tower here is less than 5 miles away.

[macuseri686]

So, the LMR 400 cables are arriving tomorrow. hopefully that will further improve the upload.

Does anyone know what the Upstream equivalent of CQI is? like CQI is an index based on RSRP and SINR that determines whether the downstream will use QPSK or 16QAM 64QAM and the symbol rate etc, and the modem sends that to the tower. but from all the documentation ive seen CQI is ONLY for downstream. how is the upstream rate negotiated?

[macuseri686]

One thing ive noticed is that when its raining, the rain affects the upstream connection significantly more than the downstream connection. my downstream connection is hardly affected, but the upstream dropped in half or more.

Just got the 10ft LMR 400 cables. Thanks @thewirelesshaven . heres the before (10ft LMR 195) and after. its still raining outside and you can see my upstream is cut in half and only like 2.5mbps on the before. went back up to 5 again after i installed the lmr 400. might go to 6 or something when the rain goes away. Ill post a proper test under ideal circumstances later. oh and ive unplugged all the amplifiers as they werent helping at all - hence the lower signal numbers across the board than before, on the before picture. I think the amps were just artificially inflating some of the signal numbers.

Before:

before.jpeg

After:

after.jpeg

Another thing ive noticed is that the RSRP of the main and diversity antennas for the grid parabolic antenna are still backwards even after i switched them. one of them is 5 db worse than the other and its always the main antenna, regardless of how i switch them to plug in to the ports. First i thought this was due to the dish being oval and not perfectly round causing one antenna polarization direction to get better signal focus but i swapped them and got no change, then i had suspected this was a cabling issue, but have now eliminated that possibility. im thinking it may be the pigtails of MHF4 to SMA female inside the wg1608 router. i think the router comes with 0.81mm cables and it may be picking up interference from the electronics going on inside there. gonna buy some 1.13mm pigtail replacements from @thewirelesshaven and see if that both fixes the 5db difference, and also improves the SINR and RSRP more even. I know 1.13mm cabling has some shielding built im but not sure about the 0.81mm. 1.13mm should always be better though anyway.

edit: ive hit 7.20mbps upload now! Holy guacamole!

[macuseri686]

Update: just got my new 1.13mm MHF4 antenna pigtails to SMA bulkhead connector to replace the 0.81mm ones that come with the wg1608. HUUUUUUGE improvement in the RSRP for both the main and diversity antennas on each pair AND fixed the issue where one of each pair was getting a significantly worse signal, no matter which antenna cable i plugged into it. now, each pair is roughly within 1-2dbm of each other. also, i saw my upload speed briefly spike to 9.20mbps!!! I think this was the biggest issue - the internal antenna cables were either receiving a lot of interference from the internal electronics and the 1.13mm cables have better shielding, or 2 of the old cables were damaged, or both. Overall RSRP improved again as well on both antenna pairs. its a pity you cant find 1.37mm MHF4 to SMA bulkhead connectors. i searched the interwebs HARD to find anything larger than 1.13mm and came up empty handed. @thewirelesshaven would love it if you could offer those

[Didneywhorl]

Schweet!

Offer larger than 1.13mm ?

[macuseri686]

Schweet!

Offer larger than 1.13mm ?

yes please . 1.37mm low loss RF cabling as an option for the SMA to MHF4 pigtail bulkhead connectors would be AWESOME!
https://www.data-alliance.net/blog/137m ... onnectors/

[Didneywhorl]

Request sent.

[macuseri686]

Thanks

Final speed test result at 3am. not sure what else i can do to improve this. the download speed has improved the most though lol. wish there was some way to turn up the transmit power of the modem or something. oh and i tried the amplifiers again now with the new bulkhead connectors, and they still have 0 impact on the upload or download speed lol.

[gscheb]

That is a usable upload speed. Allot of cable company internet service uploads are not much more than that.

[Didneywhorl]

@macuseri686 That is one Band 2? The bands all have differing provisions for the upload side. My 5GNR SA n41 gets over 100 down when not aggregating but under 2Mbps upload.

[gscheb]

Hello again,
When you say you are using T-Mobile Magenta Max LTE. Does that mean you are using a phone plan? If so what current steps did it take to get it up and going?
Used to use this option before had T-Mobile Home internet. My uncle been using Visible for awhile now but it seems to be getting harder and harder to maintain it. Now they are really messing with his Netflix. Won't play at all basically now.
Getting very aggravated with all these "new options for internet access". Like Verizon LTE 5g, Straight talk home internet, T-Mobile home internet. People in rural areas that need it can't get it. People in the city that has fiber and don't want it are eligible. What is the point! I was lucky got T-Mobile home internet soon as it was available. Now no one around me can get it basically. Tried multiple address of other relatives in other towns and come up wit nothing!
So need to find a alternative to get them something different for home internet

[macuseri686]

That is a usable upload speed. Allot of cable company internet service uploads are not much more than that.

True, its definitely usable now. was hoping to get it up to like 10 though. cant really use it for things like uploading streaming video yet. Also, i dont mind spending more money or time on this. im actually quite enjoying working on the RF stuff.

@macuseri686 That is one Band 2? The bands all have differing provisions for the upload side. My 5GNR SA n41 gets over 100 down when not aggregating but under 2Mbps upload.

Yeah B2, it seems that the upload only happens on the primary band, not any of the carrier aggregated bands. CA only adds downstream bandwidth it seems. B2 had the most upstream bandwidth of any of the bands here at 20 mhz up and 20 down.

Hello again,
When you say you are using T-Mobile Magenta Max LTE. Does that mean you are using a phone plan? If so what current steps did it take to get it up and going?
Used to use this option before had T-Mobile Home internet. My uncle been using Visible for awhile now but it seems to be getting harder and harder to maintain it. Now they are really messing with his Netflix. Won't play at all basically now.
Getting very aggravated with all these "new options for internet access". Like Verizon LTE 5g, Straight talk home internet, T-Mobile home internet. People in rural areas that need it can't get it. People in the city that has fiber and don't want it are eligible. What is the point! I was lucky got T-Mobile home internet soon as it was available. Now no one around me can get it basically. Tried multiple address of other relatives in other towns and come up wit nothing!
So need to find a alternative to get them something different for home internet

Yeah, magenta max is their top tier phone plan with unlimited everything. the steps i took to set it up was to sign up on tmobile's website for just a sim card and the magenta max plan. oh, also i set the TTL in the router to be at 65, so tmobile doesnt detect it as a hotspot. hotspot data isnt unlimited.

[gscheb]

Yeah, magenta max is their top tier phone plan with unlimited everything. the steps i took to set it up was to sign up on tmobile's website for just a sim card and the magenta max plan. oh, also i set the TTL in the router to be at 65, so tmobile doesnt detect it as a hotspot. hotspot data isnt unlimited.

Thanks for the information. Sounds like it works the same as it did years ago. Remember you said you were pretty far away from the tower. Did you ever try other plans other than T-Mobile?

[macuseri686]

Yeah, magenta max is their top tier phone plan with unlimited everything. the steps i took to set it up was to sign up on tmobile's website for just a sim card and the magenta max plan. oh, also i set the TTL in the router to be at 65, so tmobile doesnt detect it as a hotspot. hotspot data isnt unlimited.

Thanks for the information. Sounds like it works the same as it did years ago. Remember you said you were pretty far away from the tower. Did you ever try other plans other than T-Mobile?

ive checked the towers in the area on cellmaper.net and currently tmobile has really the only towers in the area. att and verizon have some closer but they are behind hills and mountains. also, att and verizon start throttleing you after a certain amount of data usage iirc.

[Didneywhorl]

Depends on the plan and account level, Verizon is typically the strictest (read: greediest)