Wireless Joint

Hi all,

I've been using Visible for a while with my EM7565 setup, but lately I've been getting throttled to 5mbit pretty consistently. Couple that with high pings and significant streaming throttling and I'm looking for a new LTE option.

What's everyone using these days for a reliable, decently fast and responsive LTE provider with no data caps or throttling? Does something like that even exist any more? After 13 years, my house is still in an Internet black hole...yay.

I've got a solid panel antenna setup and am not too far away from cell towers for Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile, so any of those are fair game.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Have you looked at US Mobile for Verizon?

for your Visible, did you try changing the TTL and HL to 65/64? Some people have done "magic" to the modem to avoid counting as hotspot on phone plans.

The ATT post paid unlimited tablet/ipad plan is still a thing.

Some have mentioned for ATT "Los Mobile" or something, you have to get it on reddit.

For Sprint, there is CalyxInstitute.org or PCsForPeople

Parja wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:34 pm Hi all,

I've been using Visible for a while with my EM7565 setup, but lately I've been getting throttled to 5mbit pretty consistently. Couple that with high pings and significant streaming throttling and I'm looking for a new LTE option.

What's everyone using these days for a reliable, decently fast and responsive LTE provider with no data caps or throttling? Does something like that even exist any more? After 13 years, my house is still in an Internet black hole...yay.

I've got a solid panel antenna setup and am not too far away from cell towers for Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile, so any of those are fair game.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Seems as thought Visible is tracking data usage by IMEI and at some point you get throttled to 5mb. Mine was running well at 15mb+ for months than about a week ago now down to 5mb. I've even crossed billing period still at 5mb. I've even tried several TTLs no luck. Moved my Visible SIM to one of my other routers and back to full speed. Also put a Verizon SIM in the LTE that was running slow with Visible and no issues. I guess let the cat/mouse games begin.

Didneywhorl wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:47 am for your Visible, did you try changing the TTL and HL to 65/64? Some people have done "magic" to the modem to avoid counting as hotspot on phone plans.

Is "magic" legal in the United States? Having hard time finding straight forward yes or no for this.

gscheb wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:06 am Is "magic" legal in the United States? Having hard time finding straight forward yes or no for this.

Without beating around the bush, the straight answer is "NO", there's a federal law on the books against "cloning". Some people do it with a "donor phone/tablet" which should never be used at the same time with the router. Others make up random numbers which may belong to another device out there being used at the same time. They're not only screwing themselves, but also the owner of the original device, and both can be blocked/tracked down easily by the carriers/feds. Having said that, to each their own.

To keep it safe and clean, you could simply tether most Android or iPhones via USB or WiFi to any router flashable by the latest GoldenOrb firmware on this list:
http://aturnofthenut.com/upload/
Here's how to do it:
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=10303#p10303

So I have been tethering a visible phone for quite some time now. As a back up when have issues with our main source of internet. For the last week it keeps going to the 5 up and down. Using the same 65 TTL that always worked before with a we826 router and rooter.

Has anyone else seen this issue? Maybe know a way around it? Or even understand how it being blocked?

After this happens will be locked to the 5 Mbps on phone usage too. Untill I put it in airplane mode for a moment then back to normal. Tried this over and over the same results.

have you tried using a vpn so they cant monitor traffic?

gscheb wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:06 am Is "magic" legal in the United States? Having hard time finding straight forward yes or no for this.

Reminds me of back when it was possible to clone the DirecTV sat. 'HU' cards. You could take a legit subscribed card and 'clone' it and have as many you wanted of sat. boxes with the exact same channels. Cloning the IMEI is really no different than the old sat. card cloning and therefore I would assume not legal.

So I have been tethering a visible phone for quite some time now. As a back up when have issues with our main source of internet. For the last week it keeps going to the 5 up and down. Using the same 65 TTL that always worked before with a we826 router and rooter.

Has anyone else seen this issue? Maybe know a way around it? Or even understand how it being blocked?

After this happens will be locked to the 5 Mbps on phone usage too. Untill I put it in airplane mode for a moment then back to normal. Tried this over and over the same results.

It sounds like it may be IMEI related? That seems to be going around a lot lately. Seems like most posts are about 'no internet', which makes me think IMEI as first guess.

Adm1jtg wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:50 pm have you tried using a vpn so they cant monitor traffic?

Yes tried using Nord VPN on the tablet using WiFi. Still at 5 Mbps.

mtl26637 wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 2:34 pm It sounds like it may be IMEI related? That seems to be going around a lot lately. Seems like most posts are about 'no internet', which makes me think IMEI as first guess.

Would IMEI be the reason when we are talking about tethering the phone? Wouldn't think so.
Every once in awhile it does work and gets past the 5 Mbps.
Think there is some way they know when you select USB tether on the phone must be flagging them somehow. Cause even after disconnecting it from router on device it will be stuck at 5 Mbps. Until you airplane it and set it back and then it is good to go again.

As a TEST you could try the dont ask dont tell method we dont discuss details of in here. That way you can eliminate the TTL trick no longer working as the router would BE the phone.

gscheb wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:02 pm Would IMEI be the reason when we are talking about tethering the phone? Wouldn't think so.
Every once in awhile it does work and gets past the 5 Mbps.
Think there is some way they know when you select USB tether on the phone must be flagging them somehow. Cause even after disconnecting it from router on device it will be stuck at 5 Mbps. Until you airplane it and set it back and then it is good to go again.

The purpose of tethering a phone to a router is two folds.
1. It's a legal "external modem".
2. You should be able to bypass the 5Mbps limit via the router's TTL and other settings (such as setting IPv4 only or IPv6 only). I would try the following TTL values, it can't hurt (64/65/66/117)

Maybe even try a couple of different phones and see how it goes.
The 5Mbps limit is caused by the carrier detecting the data being used as hotspot, it's simple as that.

BillA wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:18 am The purpose of tethering a phone to a router is two folds.
1. It's a legal "external modem".
2. You should be able to bypass the 5Mbps limit via the router's TTL and other settings (such as setting IPv4 only or IPv6 only). I would try the following TTL values, it can't hurt (64/65/66/117)

Maybe even try a couple of different phones and see how it goes.
The 5Mbps limit is caused by the carrier detecting the data being used as hotspot, it's simple as that.

Well tried some things with this today.
Used to be that could just go into rooter and use custom TTL and set it to 65 and that was fine. That don't work anymore. Have to use Firewall - Custom Rules
Have to use a TTL of 66 or higher it seams. The 65 will longer work even in the custom rules.
This is what currently using now shown below in blue.

#start TTL rules
iptables -t mangle -I POSTROUTING -o usb0 -j TTL --ttl-set 117
iptables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i usb0 -j TTL --ttl-set 117
ip6tables -t mangle -A POSTROUTING -o usb0 -j HL --hl-set 117
ip6tables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i usb0 -j HL --hl-set 117
#end TTL rules

Thing don't understand is my older lenovo laptop, older tablet and Moto Z3 phone works every time to not to stuck to the 5 up and down hot spot speed. But have a newer Fire Cube by amazon and that thing will only work about 20% of the time. If I refresh the custom rules might work a time or two and then stop.

Have any idea what this is about?

gscheb wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:08 pm Well tried some things with this today.
Used to be that could just go into rooter and use custom TTL and set it to 65 and that was fine. That don't work anymore. Have to use Firewall - Custom Rules
Have to use a TTL of 66 or higher it seams. The 65 will longer work even in the custom rules.
This is what currently using now shown below in blue.

#start TTL rules
iptables -t mangle -I POSTROUTING -o usb0 -j TTL --ttl-set 117
iptables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i usb0 -j TTL --ttl-set 117
ip6tables -t mangle -A POSTROUTING -o usb0 -j HL --hl-set 117
ip6tables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i usb0 -j HL --hl-set 117
#end TTL rules

Thing don't understand is my older lenovo laptop, older tablet and Moto Z3 phone works every time to not to stuck to the 5 up and down hot spot speed. But have a newer Fire Cube by amazon and that thing will only work about 20% of the time. If I refresh the custom rules might work a time or two and then stop.

Have any idea what this is about?

Visible?

I can't get it to stay full speed without wireguard at the router level. Not sure what they are doing to detect modification but they have some mechanism going.

Another method that will keep it full speed is a proxy.

Just modifying TTL and letting it run, eventually something automatically locks me to 5mbps. I did have a task restarting the firewall every 5 minutes. For sake of streaming it is fine. Not so much gaming.

Though with wireguard configured on the router in the vpn section it can go for days.

Mullvad and the nearest city is what I would suggest.

Wireguard saved my butt with my nephew. I talked him into a Gl.inet x750 for being on the road as a trucker. First tower he switched it locked to 5/5mbps. Since adding in wireguard, outside of congestion, he is staying 80-90% of the connections capable speed. Rarely has a forced disconnect/dead connection. Need to restart the firewall or CFUN=1,1.

also double triple quadruple check that it is usb0.

I had one start out as usb0 then change to usb_modem_1_1_2 or something a long those lines.

PS - USCellular if available in your area finally backed off the 50-150gb $50-$150 plans.

I was able to aquire a $70 unlimited plan with a EP06-A IMEI, that is $55/mo with autopay and paperless billing. (They do not do any CA in my area, just B5 and B12, probably screwed up and should have used a EC25-AF IMEI.) It is a nice failover 100/20mbps connection on B12.

cagordon1985 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:47 am Visible?

I can't get it to stay full speed without wireguard at the router level. Not sure what they are doing to detect modification but they have some mechanism going.

Another method that will keep it full speed is a proxy.

Just modifying TTL and letting it run, eventually something automatically locks me to 5mbps. I did have a task restarting the firewall every 5 minutes. For sake of streaming it is fine. Not so much gaming.

Though with wireguard configured on the router in the vpn section it can go for days.

Mullvad and the nearest city is what I would suggest.

Wireguard saved my butt with my nephew. I talked him into a Gl.inet x750 for being on the road as a trucker. First tower he switched it locked to 5/5mbps. Since adding in wireguard, outside of congestion, he is staying 80-90% of the connections capable speed. Rarely has a forced disconnect/dead connection. Need to restart the firewall or CFUN=1,1.

Double checked it is usbo.


Firewall - Custom Rules
Have to use
This is what currently using now shown below in blue.

#start TTL rules
iptables -t mangle -I POSTROUTING -o usb0 -j TTL --ttl-set 88
iptables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i usb0 -j TTL --ttl-set 88
ip6tables -t mangle -A POSTROUTING -o usb0 -j HL --hl-set 88
ip6tables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i usb0 -j HL --hl-set 88
#end TTL rules


Today
my older lenovo laptop and older tablet samsung phone works every time to not to stuck to the 5 up and down hot spot speed.
But have a newer Fire Cube and Moto Z3 work about 20% of the time. If I refresh the custom rules might work a time or two and then stop.

Anyone Have any idea what this is about or just seeing similar thing?

I do not think I am seeing the exact same thing.

It makes me wonder if these devices are creating some sort of tunnel or using unknown custom DNS settings.

Hard way would be isolate the client and parse it's traffic.

Dumb way, force DNS on your router, blacklist what moto or amazon may be using as DNS. Try static config on the devices with routers IP as gateway and DNS. (If you are providing custom DNS to your router already, try removing it, try adding it back in separate tests. Also try different providers such as google, cloudflare or opendns)

You can have DNS leaks if not using the router's IP as DNS. In theory that could cause a TTL mismatch somewhere external to your modem. (maybe Visible's VPN lan or Verizon's lan) I wouldn't put it passed Amazon using a custom hidden DNS server on devices. I've saw it with Chromecast devices.

I am just grasping for straws at this point.

Also try disabling IPV6 on your lan if you haven't, just for a test. IPV6 is the king of leaked traffic if you lack control over it. This wouldn't impact my visible, it only comes in with a ipv4 apn.

So none of your devices work all the time when you are tethering?
Is anyone have issues with this with the sim card inside a modem router?

gscheb wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:18 pm So none of your devices work all the time when you are tethering?
Is anyone have issues with this with the sim card inside a modem router?

The tethering issue with certain phones is likely caused by the implementation of the hotspot app/firewall in the phone. Instead of the stock hotspot/tethering app, try some of the third party apps which don't require root, and might get better results.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... pot&c=apps
https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... ing&c=apps

Also you could try WiFi tethering which usually works with most phones and routers.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=10303#p10303

BillA wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:41 am The tethering issue with certain phones is likely caused by the implementation of the hotspot app/firewall in the phone. Instead of the stock hotspot app try some of the third party apps which don't require root, and might get better results.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... pot&c=apps

Also your could try WiFi tethering to the router which might also work better than USB.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=10303#p10303

ok thanks will try these out.
Is it possible my phone changed? Been using the same phone all this time. A Samsung S8+. Just one day this started happening.

gscheb wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:59 am ok thanks will try these out.
Is it possible my phone changed? Been using the same phone all this time. A Samsung S8+. Just one day this started happening.

Yes, it's possible that a firmware/app upgrade on your phone has a new hotspot/firewall implementation which is not passing the modified TTL/DNS values from the router properly. WiFi tethering usually works on any phone/router because it doesn't have any driver issues. You can also try the following USB tethering apps, but only the ones which do not require a client app on the pc/router side.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... ing&c=apps

If you can root your phone, then you could try two of my favorite tethering apps.

WiFi Tether Router (lets you modify the TTL in the app)
https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... usb&c=apps

USB Tether Router (creates a standard RNDIS connection, no extra drivers or app required on the pc/router)
https://sites.google.com/site/wifitethe ... therrouter

cagordon1985 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:06 pm It makes me wonder if these devices are creating some sort of tunnel or using unknown custom DNS settings.

I too believe it may be DNS related. All of my amazon devices 'phone home' in some way, shape or form and use their own DNS settings. This can be quite the pain so I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with it.

Didneywhorl wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 10:47 am Have you looked at US Mobile for Verizon?

I have not. Is it a similar process where you set a custom TTL to avoid tethering detection? Otherwise, it looks like they're pretty limiting on hotspot data.

for your Visible, did you try changing the TTL and HL to 65/64? Some people have done "magic" to the modem to avoid counting as hotspot on phone plans.

Yup, that's worked great for me in the past, but lately it doesn't seem to be working.

The ATT post paid unlimited tablet/ipad plan is still a thing.

I actually had that in the past and my account got shut down for an IMEI mismatch.

Some have mentioned for ATT "Los Mobile" or something, you have to get it on reddit.

Hmm, thanks for the tip. This looks kind of promising.

derekjsmith wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:07 pm Seems as thought Visible is tracking data usage by IMEI and at some point you get throttled to 5mb. Mine was running well at 15mb+ for months than about a week ago now down to 5mb. I've even crossed billing period still at 5mb. I've even tried several TTLs no luck.

Yep, this is what I've seen recently as well. It's very inconsistent and sometimes I can get back to normal speeds, but eventually it always goes back to 5mpbs down.

My tethered visible today will run at full speed with TTL and having VPN on the client device. Even with free Warp VPN by CloudFlare 1.1.1.1
As far as us mobile goes it recently changed. Now has a hard throttle on their service. See video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9uqNuIXhjk

gscheb wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:59 pm As far as us mobile goes it recently changed. Now has a hard throttle on their service. See video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9uqNuIXhjk

Well that didn't flippn last long. Sigh, literally the only reason I switched all my phones to them and now they back out. Was too good to be true I suppose. Of course this is the one provider that actually uses a 'hard limit' (at least they do on the GSM side of their plans), they can't be like every other provider and deprioritize at that limit instead. Back to VZW I go, they just lost 3 lines from me at the end of this months cycle. Not that I hit that limit, just the fact they are pulling this BS.

Do you not like visible?

Honestly, I try to avoid any providers that route their traffic through different/additional portals than the main providers APN. This is why visible ping times suck. Granted i've not tried them to see if you can avoid their APN or not, but initially liked the idea of a carrier (US Mobile) having an option for 2 different providers depending on your choice upon activation (Tmob/VZW). They also use the original carrier's APN settings rather than their own which means traffic flow is basically the same as original providers traffic.

Now on the other hand and dare I say this out loud, but the few times I did have to speak with US Mobile support team, I could clearly understand them and it was probably the best tech support I'd had in as long as I can remember. Now coming from a phone company, thats saying something. Try calling any of Tracfone's various MVNO support lines and count the seconds until frustration.

mtl26637 wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:21 am Honestly, I try to avoid any providers that route their traffic through different/additional portals than the main providers APN. This is why visible ping times suck

You might have this feeling already but visible has/will continue to invest $$$ in deep packet inspection and do not welcome our usecases.

It's the least friendly of all the providers and I am not investing in visible because I believe it's a dead-end for our mobile internet usecases.

Well been using it for awhile now cause it is a deal. Probably always use it for personal phone at minimum. Still working as of now. Wouldn't use it as my main source of data but think it is great for a supplement.

mtl26637 wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:21 am Honestly, I try to avoid any providers that route their traffic through different/additional portals than the main providers APN. This is why visible ping times suck. Granted i've not tried them to see if you can avoid their APN or not, but initially liked the idea of a carrier (US Mobile) having an option for 2 different providers depending on your choice upon activation (Tmob/VZW). They also use the original carrier's APN settings rather than their own which means traffic flow is basically the same as original providers traffic.

Now on the other hand and dare I say this out loud, but the few times I did have to speak with US Mobile support team, I could clearly understand them and it was probably the best tech support I'd had in as long as I can remember. Now coming from a phone company, thats saying something. Try calling any of Tracfone's various MVNO support lines and count the seconds until frustration.

Not all MVNO's have slower speeds and/or higher ping times than the main carrier. The issue with Visible is that they are running their own servers on top of Verizon's (both for billing and packet filtering purposes), therefore your data bounces through multiple servers diminishing its performance.