Wireless Joint

Theoretical question.

T-Mobile 5g gateway. 7.5 miles from tower. 100ft elevation loss.

If one were to install external outdoor antenna(s). What selection would you use and why? Also would you install the router outside near the antennas in a waterproof enclosure and power it via POE to DC splitter or do long cable runs?

My theoretical setup could be mounted 50-75' high maximum.

Conversation starter anyways. I do have two parabolic grids. With 1700-2700 horns. But those could be purposed for ATT tower instead. Open to suggestions!

I've saw band 2. 4. 5. 12. 13. 66. 71 out here. Not sure but I think the band 71 is slow TMobile LTE. Maybe it's the new rural 600mhz 5g? Idk

I've ask similar question but never received response. Do you currently have the 5G harware and if so what type of speeds are you seeing? Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to work out as planned but would love to hear insight on any successful setups. I'm right at 3 miles away from tower with 'almost' line of sight at ~40' height on antenna tower and speeds are far less than my 4G setups. This is using an outdoor mounted RM500Q-AE and several different antenna models (currently the 4x4 The Wireless Haven MIMO). Top speeds at residence is around 70Mbps down. Same setup in enclosure within 0.5 mile of tower and I can hit 200-300Mbps.

Hopefully someone else chimes in that has had success at comparable distances from cell site but unfortunately I'm not very optimistic after many many hours of research and tinkering. If I was to guess I would assume I'm 'outside' of my cell/channel main coverage area and can't receive higher QAM etc. There is one group of trees within what would be my 'fresnel' zone but not sure if that is the only issue.

Fyi, tmob uses bands 2, 12, 66, 71 and n71. I am missing band 2 here so usually locks onto 66 and n71. I question if my RM500Q-AE can even work with bands 12 and n71 at the same time since they are both very close bands. Their 5G band is n71 (low to mid 600 mhz). Port mappings of the RM500Q-AE leave only the primary main and diversity ports (ports 1 and 2) for their low bands so if the main LTE signal latches on to band 12 I don't see how the diversity port can latch on to the 5G band but HOPEFULLY i'm missing something or misunderstanding, however, this also seems to physically be the case in my situation.

Another thing to mention is the lack of antennas that actually cover the lower n71 band (600mhz). Most have a lower end in the 700mhz range. They will work for band n71 but are not tuned for it so I know I'm not getting optimum gain. I did find a yagi that covers around somewhere between 450-700mhz but have not climbed the tower to try as of yet.

All in all, I've found it extremely difficult to obtain speeds that are close or better than 4G and that is right at 3 miles, a setup at 7.5 miles away is going to be really tough and may require additional hardware such as filters or some type of bandpass etc. to help with the SNR. For sure, I would stay away from any length of cabling and mount hardware in outdoor enclosure as high as you can get it. Ethernet cable is much cheaper and can run in the hundreds of feet if needed. Your grids would be good for the main LTE band 66.

I do hope someone has additional input on the matter cause I'm nowhere near an RF engineer lol.

Hello
Working with T-Mobile gateway at about 4.6 miles away. Been having same struggles. Haven't posted this on the other post yet since still tinkering with it.
So I got L4 and L3 to normal parabolic antenna at 1700 to 2700 MHz. Then L1 and L2 are to different type of parabolic feed that goes down to 700 MHz that is picking up N71. Now this other feed horn doesn't do as well at higher bands like band 2. Which is why I mix matched them. Originally had plans to use two of these lower band parabolic feeder horns. So now have an extra one.
Now this isn't perfect. But the best I found when you need higher gain solution.

I do happen to have a couple whitespace/400-698 antennas... Let's see what I can figure out.

With no evidence I wonder if a combo of n2 and n71 are the ticket? I keep reading about this expansion of band n71 online.

I will say my Samsung s20 from expected distance and elevation is hitting over 200mbps frequently. It's only showing use of band 2 though. Does show a 5g emblem, not sure that matters.

Oh the wait to tinker is going to kill me.

What say everyone else around here? Any experiences/observations?

Also I do not have the gateway in hand yet. Will be probably a few weeks delay before I can get antennas up and start modding.

When I tested T-Mobile in cell phones having 5G made a big difference. Will put stats up with this configuration once I try one more thing to optimize it.
One thing I have learned for sure is that L4 is the primary antenna lead. It will connect with only that hooked up. Won't do that with the rest of the leads.
Been posting things here of trials have done.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=32 ... 110#p17713
Surprised they giving you service if tower is that far away. Been checking for people I know and seems they being stingy about giving out more service.

Just have to think outside the P.O. box. If you catch my drift.

Just as an fyi, here are the EN-DC band combinations available for the t-mob 5G service. There are a few more available above "2 CA" but to start this is what we are looking for:

Intra-band non-contiguous:
DC_71A_n71A 71 n71

Inter-band EN-DC within FR1 (two bands)
DC_2A_n71A 2 n71
DC_2A_n71B 2 n71B
DC_2C_n71A 2C n71
DC_2A-2A_n71A 2A-2A n71
DC_12A_n71A 12 n71
DC_66A_n71A 66 n71
DC_66C_n71A 66C n71
DC_66A_n71B 66 n71B
DC_66A-66A_n71A 66A-66A n71

With EN-DC, the primary connection is with the 4G LTE connection and when needed the 5G bands will kick in and help with larger downloads. As you can see from above, our possible combinations are:

4G/5G
---------
71/n71
2/n71
12/n71
66/n71

I'm not sure how the t-mob 5G can antenna ports are set up, but I'm pretty sure that the 12-n71 combination is a no-go with the RM500Q-AE as it only has 2 antenna ports for lower bands (ports 1 and 2) and if the main 4G band is band 12 (700mhz) then the 5G band signal (n71 600mhz) would have to be received on port 2 (primary/diversity port) and not sure if the modem front end is even set up to do that. This leaves 71/n71, 2/n71 and 66/n71. I do not have band 2 available so this leaves 71/n71 or 66/n71. It seems that none of the carriers like to use the 4G band 71 as the primary 4G LTE carrier so that gets me down to the 66/n71 combo. Finding information on actual antenna port mappings can be hard but from what I have seen the options for the RM500Q-AE are as above.

Hopefully that may help in explaining some of your tests and what and why it connected to certain bands when some of the ports were disconnected. What you really need for the tmob home internet can is the actual port mappings.

Got in some unexpected testing today.

LTE only, with EC25-AF and Spitz.

Was very encouraging, 2,4,5,12,13,14,66,71 are strong enough to hit generic $35 yagi's @ about 55'+/- with like 75' of N to SMA cheapo coax running down the pole through the window.

Also got some phone testing in, Looks like the T-Mobile 5G up the hill is using n41 and n71? I am literally like 6.5-7.0 miles the way the bird flies minimum. Up on the hill I am probably closer to 6,.25-6.75 miles (holy crap metric miles haha). It consistantly hits 120-250mbps. With a Samsung S20 to clarify.

The Tmobile B2 and B71 testing was also promising, B2 is decent speeds and a very stable ping, LTE B71 is also surprisingly smooth. About 1/3rd the bandwidth of LTE B2 though.

ATT LTE B4 and LTE B14 was better than expected, but some latency under load, Apparently 14 is prioritized to first responders? IDK how I feel about using that band. I suppose it is prioritized and not reserved.

Verizon has been good antennas or not LTE B13 and maybe 5? Not sure if its Verizon or ATT, visible VPN sucks though, adds about 80-100ms of latency and wierd dns issues, may look at a post paid for this. Wonder how their fair usage / caps / throttling works? I'd probably hit 200gb minimum a month on whatever takes that LAN port.

U.S. Cell is a screamer on LTE B12, it makes the spitz, outdoor or indoor antennas, hit 80mbps every test. I assume thats all the spitz can handle going out 100mbps port? Problem with U.S. Cell, great for actual phone coverage, $150+ fees for 150GB, yuck... I do use google FI for my actual phone, it leverages both Tmobile and US cell networks, used to have sprint. My data limit sucks but its truely premium service for rural folks in this area.

Tomorrow going to break out the Sierra 7455, would have tonight but for some reason the TMobile and ATT sim just wouldn't read. I assume its the card reader on the spitz and nothing to do with configs or IMEI's, from my understanding of how those things work.

Carrier Aggregation has to be a possiblity with my findings?

Certain modem do certain carrier aggregation combinations. Can look at them and see what combo they do.

Finally got a chance to test with the trashcan and the rm502q-ae.

I am using whitespace yagi. that are 480-698mhz or so. Also I've tested with a parabolic grid and 1700-2600?mhz feed horn.

I have observed B2+n71 CA. on the trashcan. Not the RM502Q-AE

The trash can I installed sma pigtails to pin 3 and 4. I suspect the RM502Q-AE is using pin 2 and 3 for SA 5g on N71.

Here is my result with SA n71. using the two whitespace antennas, 50' of lmr400, to the WG1608 with RM502Q-AE.

I need to figure out if 4 white space antennas and b71+n71 aggregation is possible

Or two whitespace antennas and a parabolic grid or ldpa mimo setup for b2+n71 is possible.

Time to test with the WG1608, maybe install a few more pigtails to the trashcan.

Noticed the whitespace antennas will pickup b71 with a lower dB than the parabolic grid will pickup b2 (88db versus 94db, assuming I even pointed anything right). The secondary band dB is also lower/better with the whitespace yagi versus the parabolic grid. Seeing B2+B71+n71 on 4 yagi's would be sweet.

I still need to test quite a few antenna spacing and positioning setups also. The whitespace antennas seem to like being spaced out about 3-4.5ft with minimal testing so far.

Good research! Thanks for posting!

You will find RM500Q-AE antenna port mapping shows lower bands only available on ports 1 and 2. See my first couple posts in this thread for details. Also, see those posts for the possible ENDC combinations. The trick is the primary ports are 1 and 2 and they are also the lower band ports so both the primary LTE control band and the T-Mobile's main 5G lower band are fighting for those 2 ports. It's unfortunate that the primary antenna ports are also the only 2 lower band ports. Ports 0 and 3 are the mid/upper secondary diversity ports. I think this is why it is hard to latch on to 12/n71 being they are both lower bands.

I'm currently working on modifying a lower band (tv whitespace) yagi so that I can try to get better signal on n71. I've tried several of the readily available 4G/LTE antennas and none offer 'great' n71 gain. I need an antenna designed for lower frequencies without breaking the bank since I seem to be on cell edge and extreme side limits of the 5G sector antenna available at the tower. Preliminary testing seems positive and shows great SWR on my mini VNA around the 500-700mhz range, just need to modify its port from coax to SMA and get rid of the internal board. I can't seem to find any perfect antenna matches, I'm sure in time they will be available since its T-Mobiles main 5G coverage band.

I am curious about this antenna. It is much cheaper than alternative whitespace antennas I've found. Also it is dual N type. For around $100 a pop.

https://www.antelantenna.com/product/ata-ya570hv-9/

Last project will be slap it all in a ip67.

The above antenna directly to the ip67 enclosure would be pretty tidy, if it performs near the antenna's listed below. They run $120 per, $240 for 2x mimo.

https://www.antelantenna.com/product/ata-ya470-10/

I also wish I had a SIM8200 to test with... 6x Antenna ports on that modem?

Also for what I have observed pointing for n71... You have about a 3 inch window east to west, with the antenna level.

Anything outside of this will yield b71.

The sweetspot where I started getting near the theoretical 2x2 n71 max for my stats. Was about a .5-1 inch window.

I haven't tested skew, also my mount isn't the most stable, its a breakover pole thats 55' tall, wind does move it. Oddly that doesn't seem to impact the connection too much.

Rain beading up on the antennas will halve the connection speed.

A storm over you doesn't impact it too much, a storm over the tower, will halve the speed.

Elevation for my antenna setup has only improved SNR and upload. Down rates have been near the same 10' or 55'.

I would say my distance and elevation loss are moderate obsticles for your average user. I am in a creek bottom, with a couple other creek bottoms between here and there, thank god cell towers are insanely tall.

I find your results of your window of direction to be surprising. Also any weather interference for that matter? The n71 band (600mhz range) has a wavelength of ~1.5 feet or so. I wouldn't think either of those items would have that much affect. I will most definitely have to play with direction more than I have if you are getting that different of results with direction.

Also, I do like those yagi's you have linked but I can't seem to find pricing? What about shipping, about how long did it take to receive if you dont mind me asking?

I hate to suggest as I know the folks here run a store.

However a quick google of Rfwel Whitespace will land you in the direction of what I am using.

cagordon1985 wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:48 pm I hate to suggest as I know the folks here run a store.

However a quick google of Rfwel Whitespace will land you in the direction of what I am using.

Understood, and honestly 99% of everything I have comes from the store here. Great equipment and good pricing and most importantly you know what your getting. Only thing lacking if anything is a specific low band antenna but i'm sure its only a matter of time before that happens as I'm sure the need for it will only grow from this point on. Thx for the direction, I'll check it out.

Low band (B71) only antennas as well as a High Band (B46) specific antennas are in the works. As well as other goodies, but dev, testing, and manufacturing contracts takes so dang long.

Well... I bet I end up owning more antennas..

*cough* We need a 600-900mhz 21dB+ 2x mimo feed horn *cough*

Parabolic dish antennas make their maximum gain at higher rated frequencies, even if they are advertised as broadband. The gain is not uniform across all advertised frequencies. In fact dropoff can be steep.

You are better off with a huge yagi or log periodic antenna. This is the real deal right here. I recommend this one for 5G n71 and 4G b71. I have been traveling the United States and working out of cabins in the woods or the middle of nowhere corn fields and it gets the job done thanks to band 71.

11 dBi Yagi Antenna for TV White Space (470-862 MHz)

gscheb wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:26 pm Then L1 and L2 are to different type of parabolic feed that goes down to 700 MHz that is picking up N71. Now this other feed horn doesn't do as well at higher bands like band 2. Which is why I mix matched them.

Now this isn't perfect. But the best I found when you need higher gain solution.

How is the lower band feed horn working out? Planning on getting a couple as I'll like to also trap n71 SA.

You mentioned mixing/matching - how much did you loose if just using two of the lower band feeds?

Hello
Loose substainal amount really. Using that T-Mobile gateway depends allot on your connection to higher frequency LTE bands. So when my signal strength drops on band 2 it effects my download and upload.
Using this to work from home so it is important to have good connection. If you just using it for web surfing and streaming could get away with just one antenna.
Mine is different now changed it again. Those antennas on top are just wide band log peridioc antennas that go down to 600 mhz. They sell these types at the LTE store.
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... l-antenna/
These antennas are not advertised of having a high gain. But for what ever reason they work better for me. Upload increased with this change again.
The distance I am going is 4.7 miles to the tower.

Hello all,
Haven't heard anyone update lately of what Antenna set ups they are using with T-Mobile home internet.
Anyone have any new ideas on setups?

Trying to move away from a mixed antenna set up.

Went to all 4 periodic wedge type antennas and struggling to get good performance. Mixed antenna seems better. Think 4 of the same would make better quality signal. It does on the metrics of the signal but the speeds are less.