Page 1 of 1

StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:48 am
by BillA
So the long awaited StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX has finally landed in the form an email update:

(quote) " The Better Than Nothing Beta test, initial Starlink service is priced at $99 a month – plus a $499 upfront cost to order the Starlink Kit. The kit includes a user terminal to connect to the satellites, a mounting tripod and a Wi-Fi router. There is also now a Starlink app listed by SpaceX on the Google Play and Apple iOS app stores.

As you can tell from the title, we are trying to lower your initial expectations. Expect to see data speeds vary from 50Mb/s to 150Mb/s and latency from 20ms to 40ms over the next several months as we enhance the Starlink system. There will also be brief periods of no connectivity at all.

Under Starlink’s Better Than Nothing Beta program, initial service is targeted for the U.S. and Canada in 2020, rapidly expanding to near global coverage of the populated world by 2021. " (unquote)


Some thoughts about StarLink...

Having to use a satellite antenna, the shape and size of a pizza box as described by StarLink, it will probably have the same issues as other dishes (DirecTV, Dish Network, etc), when it rains, snows, or birds poop, the data will drop out for some time. Unfortunately, it's the inherent nature of high frequency satellite communications, including relatively high ping times of 40ms compared to 5G's 5ms. There's nothing that can be done about it (unless we invest faster than light communications), the signal has to travel a certain distance, which even at the speed of light has a slight delay. Keep in mind, the signal has to travel in both directions, up 550Km, down 550Km, so when you press a key on your keyboard it actually has to travel 1,100Km back to the server, then the response another 1,100km from the server back to your computer, therefore there's really no way to improve on the ping times (and that's the be case scenario without any other delays of the packet on its way). For this reason, terrestrial mobile services will always have an advantage in speed, ping, reliability and price (#SPRP lol).

If and when price comes down and the service becomes more popular, they could become the victim of their own success. When there's a critical number of concurrent users watching PornHub (you know who I'm talking about! lol), it could bog down the network dragging down speeds and user experience. There's only a finite amount of bandwidth for any given geographic area to cover (they can't just put more satellites in space for that area), and most likely StarLink will be prioritized for Tesla cars (Elon Musk's other venture) as their global network for self driving cars which I'm suspecting was the initial purposes/trigger for the StarLink project.

The current upfront equipment cost of $500 along with the $100 monthly service is pretty unattractive, when you can get similar or better LTE/5G service here on Earth. Nevertheless, StarLink and other satellite internet services will be useful especially for those in for remote areas who have no other choices.

Wooo-hooo! Sign me up! Hmmm... not yet, I rather buy a Tesla. ;D

https://www.starlink.com/



Update on 2020-12-12

The good news...
Upon looking at the pictures in the article posted by R1250GSA (https://www.inverse.com/innovation/spac ... tic-router), looks like they are using a flat phase-array dish antenna instead of the traditional parabolic dish. Phase array is used by the military since it offers several advantages over the "dish", such as lower and smaller profile, less finicky angles, better performance. The POE adapter at https://youtu.be/RDjlhhbbPJE?t=130 looks like it's about 1,000Watts of raw power, no wonder it can also drive a heater inside the antenna. he-he
In it's current form, I would imagine it's an alternative for those with no or crappy and expensive internet, however with a decent mobile signal one can get better internet at a much lower cost, especially as 5G gets deployed more widely.

The bad news...
Initially it was touted as a gigabit internet service, but even Startlink's lab can only get a couple of hundred megabits down and a third of that as up speed. Now, with a half decent mobile router setup along with decent signal or with directional antennas, one can get easily get a couple of hundred Mbps on 4G-LTE and well over 500Mbps on 5G sub-6GHz and over 1Gbps on mmWave for about half the monthly cost of StarLink, let alone the $600 startup cost of the hardware+service. With congestion service cost could go up, and there's no good data at this time once millions of users get online at once how will that affect throughput, so we shall see in the coming years.

Reliability...
As far as reliability, terrestrial based cellular service will always be more dependable. With satellite service there are just way more points of fault, including uplink/downlink, space junk knocking out satellites, weather factors (wind, rain, snow), sun busts, and of course the phase of the moon (well maybe not that last one lol).

The fun news...
Of course it could always be used as a picnic table too with its flat surface and a built-in "microwave oven". Once you're done picnicking, just hang it on a wall as a dart-board. For extra fun, one could use the thousands of StarLink satellites in low orbit as skeet shooting targets. Get that shotgun out! Poww-Poww!! ;D


Image
Image

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:27 am
by poodad
I'll sign up the second they offer it to me.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:09 am
by thejohnfist
If the price were better or the service were better, I'd be on it day one for sure. If I'm going to pay fiber costs I want fiber speeds. Otherwise they need to bring that down to sub $40/mo for me to consider 50-150mbps.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:46 am
by MattB29
Might be great for some people but does not seem a good economical choice for me. I doubt that I would ever be interested in it. My data needs are low and I prefer as cheap as possible to obtain it. Maybe when they get there setup costs down to ~$200 and their monthly at $35-50 I would take another look.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:17 pm
by ylrkdr
If the regular service is going to be this expensive, I think I would rather upgrade my LTE system a la swwifty.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:17 pm
by Dr-BroadBand
StarLink is for rural location that need internet.

If you ever had to use Hughes Net (NO NET) in satellite country you would understand.

If you only have a weak Cell Tower with no bandwidth all the antennas and high end modems
you will only get 7down and 7up 20 miles south can get 175dn and 50up.
It's all about Location... Location... Location

The information below is from cell mapper .... Ouch :geek:

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:42 pm
by ylrkdr
hey, 99 is pretty good from where I'm at.... :P

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:31 am
by R1250GSA
SpaceX trying to grab more spectrum, they have plans...

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless ... 2-ghz-band

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:38 pm
by Mcons
99 is a steal for what it is unlimited data and low pings when compared to my only other options of hughesnet or cell phone plans that are unreliable and I can get kicked off at any moment

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:56 pm
by gscheb
Only concern currently have is it is in beta right now. There is talk that after it gets released for real could be data caps on plans.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:41 pm
by R1250GSA
The write up has some pics of the gear.

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/spac ... tic-router

The one pic of the speed test showed 174 down and 33 Mbps UP!
I am amazed that they can get so much upload performance.
Also curious about how snow and rain will sit inside the sat dish.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:34 am
by thejohnfist
I think they'll drop out of beta and offer tiered data plans like most providers. They've already said their goal is near-gigabit speeds. So it's pretty likely we'll see a tiered system.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:35 am
by thejohnfist
R1250GSA wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:41 pm
Also curious about how snow and rain will sit inside the sat dish.
Everything I've read says rain storms do not drastically affect performance. I've also read that current kits have a heating element inside to prevent snow accumulation (within reason I'd imagine).

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:09 pm
by BillA
thejohnfist wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 8:35 am Everything I've read says rain storms do not drastically affect performance. I've also read that current kits have a heating element inside to prevent snow accumulation (within reason I'd imagine).

The good news...
Upon looking at the pictures in the article posted by R1250GSA (https://www.inverse.com/innovation/spac ... tic-router), looks like they are using a flat phase-array dish antenna instead of the traditional parabolic dish. Phase-array is used by the military since it offers several advantages over the "dish", such as lower and smaller profile, less finicky angles, better performance. The POE adapter at https://youtu.be/RDjlhhbbPJE?t=130 looks like it's about 1,000Watts of raw power, no wonder it can also drive a heater inside the antenna. he-he
In it's current form, I would imagine it's an alternative for those with no or crappy and expensive internet, however with a decent mobile signal one can get better internet at a much lower cost, especially as 5G gets deployed more widely.

The bad news...
Initially it was touted as a gigabit internet service, but even Startlink's lab can only get a couple of hundred megabits down and a third of that as up speed. Now, with a half decent mobile router setup along with decent signal or with directional antennas, one can get easily get a couple of hundred Mbps on 4G-LTE and well over 500Mbps on 5G sub-6GHz and over 1Gbps on mmWave for about half the monthly cost of StarLink, let alone the $600 startup cost of the hardware+service. With congestion service cost could go up, and there's no good data at this time once millions of users get online at once how will that affect throughput, so we shall see in the coming years.

Reliability...
As far as reliability, terrestrial based cellular service will always be more dependable. With satellite service there are just way more points of fault, including uplink/downlink, space junk knocking out satellites, weather factors (wind, rain, snow), sun busts, and of course the phase of the moon (well maybe not that last one lol).

The fun news...
Of course it could always be used as a picnic table too with its flat surface and a built-in "microwave oven". Once you're done picnicking, just hang it on a wall as a dart-board. For extra fun, one could use the thousands of StarLink satellites in low orbit as skeet shooting targets. Get that shotgun out! Poww-Poww!! ;D

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:56 am
by thejohnfist
As much as I like the idea of Starlink, I'm thinking about dumping some cash into a better LTE setup. My concern is the lifespan of a nice LTE setup vs 5G proofing? Do I dare drop $300 on a EM160 if it's not going to be worth a dime in 4 years?

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:41 am
by radec
thejohnfist wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:56 am As much as I like the idea of Starlink, I'm thinking about dumping some cash into a better LTE setup. My concern is the lifespan of a nice LTE setup vs 5G proofing? Do I dare drop $300 on a EM160 if it's not going to be worth a dime in 4 years?
For me it would depend on the price per month of my LTE service. I am coming from perspective of always trying to save money. :P
If your current LTE subscription cost is low enough the you still saved money after 2-3 years even after spending the $300 on an EM160 then it is worth it. If it comes out the same as the equipment cost of starlink plus the 99/mo for 2-3, then *shrug* harder to say, especially considering the price of LTE is going to change and most likely the starlink price will change.

I guess it becomes easier to decide the lower your monthly cost is, if it's low enough that you save that $300 in a years time compared to getting starlink, or whatever isp is available in your area. Then it's probably worth and you can see what the state of things with 5g/starlink/etc is in a year.

anyway just my 2cents

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:13 pm
by thejohnfist
radec wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:41 am For me it would depend on the price per month of my LTE service. I am coming from perspective of always trying to save money. :P
If your current LTE subscription cost is low enough the you still saved money after 2-3 years even after spending the $300 on an EM160 then it is worth it. If it comes out the same as the equipment cost of starlink plus the 99/mo for 2-3, then *shrug* harder to say, especially considering the price of LTE is going to change and most likely the starlink price will change.

I guess it becomes easier to decide the lower your monthly cost is, if it's low enough that you save that $300 in a years time compared to getting starlink, or whatever isp is available in your area. Then it's probably worth and you can see what the state of things with 5g/starlink/etc is in a year.

anyway just my 2cents
Cost wise, I'm looking at either $20/mo for ATT or $10/mo for Mobile Citizen (unless I get stuck using Calyx).

Both will easily pay for the modem over Starlink. However, I already have two modems anyway haha so spending more for more speed is simple data greed.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:01 am
by R1250GSA
Very informative video from a Starlink Beta tester.
PoE power via a fixed 100ft cable, 2ft motorized dish.
$499 + $99/mos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igtN49I1CtM

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:21 am
by BillA
thejohnfist wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:13 pm Cost wise, I'm looking at either $20/mo for ATT or $10/mo for Mobile Citizen (unless I get stuck using Calyx).

Both will easily pay for the modem over Starlink. However, I already have two modems anyway haha so spending more for more speed is simple data greed.

With your relatively low cost mobile data plans, you could connect several 4G/5G modems (in addition of the internal one) to your mobile router, and use either the built-in MWAN for failover/load balancing, or install OpenMPTCProuter (https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1078) for full channel bonding (combining speeds from multiple modems).

If using a 5G modem you really don't need multiple modems since it's already pretty fast, unless you really want to. By the way, a 5G modem purchased today will be just as relevant 4-5 years from now, so it's a safe investment.

Here's a screenshot of my speed test using a 5G Simcom SIM8200"EA"-M2 in a WG1608 router and Tmobile/SimpleMobile service. https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=15158#p15158

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:12 am
by thejohnfist
BillA wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 6:21 am
Here's a screenshot of my speed test using a 5G Simcom SIM8200"EA"-M2 in a WG1608 router and Tmobile/SimpleMobile service. https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?p=15158#p15158
Unfortunately the only 5G I'll probably ever see will be T-Mo's version of it. I'm hoping with my new router (thanks The Wireless Haven) coming I'll get more than 100mbps out of a 7565 CA some Band 41 over Sprint/Mobile Citizen.

Time will tell.

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:55 am
by micasmith
The idea is really brilliant but what if the collaps with the satellite happens like in the case I've seen today on world news will it leave all the users without any connection.. I'm doubt

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:51 am
by ylrkdr
Starlink just raised their prices to $549 to deposit holders from $499, and $599 for new orders, with monthly fees going up to $110/mo. Hmmmmmmm.......

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:27 am
by Dr-BroadBand
ylrkdr wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:51 am Starlink just raised their prices to $549 to deposit holders from $499, and $599 for new orders, with monthly fees going up to $110/mo. Hmmmmmmm.......
It’s called inflation
His cost are raising so he is passing the cost onto the user.
Jet Fuel.png

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:06 pm
by ylrkdr
Best Effort, anyone???? :lol: :lol: :P :lol: :lol:

Re: StarLink satellite internet service by SpaceX

Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:05 pm
by BillA
Dr-BroadBand wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:27 am
ylrkdr wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:51 am Starlink just raised their prices to $549 to deposit holders from $499, and $599 for new orders, with monthly fees going up to $110/mo. Hmmmmmmm.......
It’s called inflation
His cost are raising so he is passing the cost onto the user.
Jet Fuel.png

Yet cellular plan prices stayed pretty much the same for the past 5 years including unlimited data. Inflation doesn't seem to affect it like other products and services. Starlink is up from $99 to $120-$200/month depend on the plan (standard/mobility/priority). I had $55/month unlimited cellular data back in 2019, and still the same cost in 2024 on both Tmobile and Verizon.