Wireless Joint

Newbie, first time post. Looking for assistance.
I have read so many great success stories on this site over the past few days but I haven't found a "works every time" solution. It seems success comes from a lot of trial and error, a few best practices and a bunch of time and money. While I have tried a number of things, I still can't seem to get consistent speeds over 1-2Mbps (typically under 1M - upload is better than download, numbers are an average of the two). I am fairly technical, or at least used to be, but I by no means understand cellular technology.

Here's my story:
I live in a rural area of Virginia about 2 miles from the nearest tower and from what I can tell, all the major carrier are withing about 5 miles. I seem to only receive B12 with very poor signal. I have no direct line of site to the tower, there are about 4 miles of trees between me and the tower 2 miles away and I live in a low spot in the terrain. I have two teenagers and both my wife and I work from home occasionally and we often stream TV/movies - use up to about 300GB of data per month.
I began with a sorta sketchy ATT grandfathered unlimited plan leased through a complete stranger on the other side of the country. It was connected to a ATT mifi device sitting in a downstairs window and it worked OK (maybe 2Mbps at best). Also have a Uniden cellular repeater that helped? Seemed to get throttled often.
I came across the Unlimitedville Red plan, was more than twice what I was paying before, that provided the MoFi 4500 device with antenna capabilities. Tried it with included paddle antennas and with single yagi from the Uniden setup, got up to around 5-6Mbps but the MoFi was blacklisted by VZW after 4 days. Purchased the Ubifi plan, back to ATT, with the MoFi 4500 and was back to around 2Mbps. Added a pair of mimo antennas from WirEng - WideAnt2-X from Amazon that were specifically for the MoFi. Mounted on pole a few feet above roofline with a pair of 30' ULL240 ultra-low loss cables (no filters or lightning guards). Was getting around 4Mps with this setup and it was usable for a time.<br/>
I paid $900.00 to a cellular company who specialized in business class cellular internet to drive two hours, spend a few hours with specialized equipment and propose enhancements. They left 6 hours later with their tails tucked between their legs. In the past month or so, presumably due Covid-19 and heavier usage, the speeds have dropped to almost unusable (under 1Mbps).

TLDR:
I would be ecstatic with 10Mbps service, happy with 5. It makes me sick to see some of you getting 20-100+Mbps in more rural areas, significantly further from towers (I'm really happy for you, sad for me). I see a lot of info on equipment and small tweaks to get a few extra Mbps, but I appear to be missing something major. Glad to send pictures and metrics from speed tests and the MoFi, but I have no idea where to start. I have spent a lot of money and time with little reward. Please suggest some major changes that might get me started toward usable cellular internet.

Sorry for the lengthy first post. I hope the background is useful.

Don't worry. You actually are in a great position if you say you have all major carriers available. That itself is a blessing. Being within 5 miles of towers is also great. Some people are touching towers nearly 20 miles away.

First thing we need. Is your signal information currently as well as what version of the MOFI4500 do you have? The different versions have different modems inside.

Just to rap a second about the speeds. If your only connecting to B12, then part of your issues begin with that. B12 cant really do much more than 30ish Mbps in the best conditions, without Carrier Aggregation, and is reported to average 10-ish Mbps. If you have other people in your general area also using this connection, your now getting load on the tower to split with others. Pile on top of that poor signal strength, some of which come from signal losses on the equipment itself, and you get what your getting now.

You likely know most of that though.

For $900 you can build yourself a great unit, I hate that you paid someone to NOT help you. For a hundred or two more I can build it for you. Of course we all can help you build and troubleshoot step by step. We are all volunteers here, except Jim, and will post back as often as we can. I'm kind of addicted to helping folks

I have direct line of sight to my tower at less than 2 miles away, so I'm special , but I've tested over 375Mbps on my setup, and over 300Mbps on my test setups so far. New gear and reviews to come!

Well get you there. Hook us up with the above asked info and we can get started in the right direction.

Thank you for the reply. I have been driving 30 miles to sit in my office (by myself) to get work done on decent internet. When I get home I will grab the signal info and more detail on my setup and submit. To be clear, I am open to paying someone to put together a package that works as I don't expect to take on another hobby. I am grateful that there are folks that are!

Here is what I have so far.
MoFi version: Signal Info: Band Scan: Speed Test: Antenna: Antenna specs from manufacturer: WideAnt2-X™ operating frequency range is 700-3800 MHz with a peak gain of (varies) dBi*, a horizontal aperture of 55° and a vertical aperture of 40°. This WideAnt2-X™ system is made for the MOFI MOFI4500-4GXeLTE-SIM2. Includes a dual-to-single antenna pole mount adapter and 30 feet of ULL240 ultra-low loss dual coaxial cable and adapters for direct connection to the MOFI MOFI4500-4GXeLTE-SIM2.

The band scan shows additional ATT bands but the connection is intermittent and band locking any of them results in no connection.

Looking forward to hearing some simple way to get to 20+Mbps

You signal strength at -107db is very poor along with quality at -12db, which directly correlates with your low speeds.
You would want to aim for -70db/-14db or better, maybe try a good flat panel instead of the Yagis, they tend to perform better.

Thank you BillA, I spoke with Ubifi to see if there was something they could do on their end and they suggested the Wilson Directional panel antenna. Looks like 10.6db gain antenna. I assume their is something better out there. What is best for heavily wooded areas without direct line of sight?
They suggested starting with a single panel, should I start with one to test or jump into two?

LogHomeLatency wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 1:43 pm Thank you BillA, I spoke with Ubifi to see if there was something they could do on their end and they suggested the Wilson Directional panel antenna. Looks like 10.6db gain antenna. I assume their is something better out there. What is best for heavily wooded areas without direct line of sight?
They suggested starting with a single panel, should I start with one to test or jump into two?

Take a look at the antennas in the thewirelesshaven.com shop, they've got some nice high gain all-in-ones or a pair or Yagi's.

You need two of these 13db antennas mounted at a 45 degree angle of each other
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/wifi-a ... i-antenna/

Or a 15db all-in-one antenna, you only need one:
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/4g-lte ... l-antenna/

Make sure your get the right cables connecting the antennas "N" connector to the router's female SMA connector.

Thanks again BillA, curious about the difference in MHz between the two? Any benefits one over the other with ATT? What if I switch to a different carrier? The 15db seems more versatile. Still learning.

LogHomeLatency wrote: Thu May 14, 2020 2:49 pm Thanks again BillA, curious about the difference in MHz between the two? Any benefits one over the other with ATT? What if I switch to a different carrier? The 15db seems more versatile. Still learning.

They cover all the US bands, it should be fine for any 4G-LTE carrier, however for mmWave (for the high Gigahetz range) you'll need new antennas.

Hello,
I live in a rural area as well. Have never seen the great signal reading that other see on here. My set ups work with readings that are over one hundred. Have had good enough speed at readings like this. That picture is a Mofi on T-mobile band 2. Was easily getting over 20 mbps with these -114 signal.
No longer have a Mofi but still T-Mobile on band 2 with a signal of -104 range now.
Got that currently with 15 feet of lmr 400 and the 15 dbi panel type antennas.

Here is a chart to look at what signal reading are acceptable, With all that being said band 12 is famous for being over saturated with people. One thing you could try now with out spending more money at this is locking to certain bands. Locking to bands isn't always ideal but sometime that is what you got to do to get a difficult setup to work.

To beat my dead horse some more if you really are in the country setting with all the trees and far away you are not going to see excellent signal readings. Pay attention to the the chart look for the Fair or good readings. From what I see you are there now.

Just for the heck of it lock to that band 4 and run a speed test and post what happens.

Will do, thank you GSCHEB. I have tried to lock to other bands, including 4 and the connection drops completely. I will try again. I think the panel antenna may do great things based on what you are saying and what BillA has suggested.

Went to The Wireless Haven links provided by BillA and found that they do not accept payments in Virginia. Is there another source or has anyone had similar issues? I plan to wait until Monday when they open to see if they can take my order over the phone.

LogHomeLatency wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 11:24 am Went to The Wireless Haven links provided by BillA and found that they do not accept payments in Virginia.
Capture.PNG

Is there another source or has anyone had similar issues? I plan to wait until Monday when they open to see if they can take my order over the phone.

Hmm that's surpising... maybe email them and ask if you can make a PayPal payment. Alter natively try Amazon or Ebay.

LogHomeLatency wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 11:24 am Went to The Wireless Haven links provided by BillA and found that they do not accept payments in Virginia.
Capture.PNG

Is there another source or has anyone had similar issues? I plan to wait until Monday when they open to see if they can take my order over the phone.

We have several notices on the store that we are currently not accepting orders between Thursday's closing (5PM CST) and Monday's Opening (8AM CST).

Please check back with us Monday morning.

The way it responds to the store not accepting orders is it tells you its not taming payments from your state. Its just not taking orders at all until Monday.

Worth the wait though, The Wireless Haven will have you order shipped PDQ

Hello again.
At parents house now. They use AT&T with we826 with mc7455. Basically same as mofi.
So here is there signal stats they live in rural country area.

!GSTATUS:
Current Time: 129031 Temperature: 49
Reset Counter: 3 Mode: ONLINE
System mode: LTE PS state: Attached
LTE band: B4 LTE bw: 20 MHz
LTE Rx chan: 2150 LTE Tx chan: 20150
LTE CA state: INACTIVE LTE Scell band:B12
LTE Scell bw:5 MHz LTE Scell chan:5145
EMM state: Registered Normal Service
RRC state: RRC Connected
IMS reg state: No Srv

PCC RxM RSSI: -77 RSRP (dBm): -116
PCC RxD RSSI: -79 RSRP (dBm): -118
SCC RxM RSSI: -75 RSRP (dBm): -99
SCC RxD RSSI: -76 RSRP (dBm): -100
Tx Power: 9 TAC: 4E0A (19978)
RSRQ (dB): -13.7 Cell ID: 02E95716 (48846614)
SINR (dB): 5.0
OK

These signals are with two log periodic antennas like yours and 25 feet of lmr 400.

Used to get band 2 and one day it just disappeared. Thought it was antenna so switched it out and band 2 still gone.

Here is the speed test results.
These are done with my phone over WiFi.

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/6075344521

https://www.speedtest.net/my-result/a/6075363798

You know as a side note.
Are you running your tests over WiFi???
Allot of these we 826 routers have wifi issues.
My parents don't but mine does.
The Mofi I used to have had terrible wifi on it.

yes, all tests over MoFi Wifi connection with my phone, what other options do I have?

gscheb wrote: Fri May 15, 2020 8:35 pm You know as a side note.
Are you running your tests over WiFi???
Allot of these we 826 routers have wifi issues.
My parents don't but mine does.
The Mofi I used to have had terrible wifi on it.

I assume you mean plugging a PC into the MoFi eth ports?

LogHomeLatency wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 11:23 am I assume you mean plugging a PC into the MoFi eth ports?

Yes
Have you ever tried that?

Yeah, plugging a pc into the LAN will usually yield faster speed tests on the we826 based units.

Didneywhorl wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 12:32 pm Yeah, plugging a pc into the LAN will usually yield faster speed tests on the we826 based units.

Yes and some of them are just faulty too. Got one of these things that pull like 2mbps over wifi maxed out.
The Mofi I used to have did that too at times. Starting to wonder if that could be the issue. The Super slow speeds just don't make sense to me with this.

Finally got some eth cables so I can test with PC on LAN port instead of wifi. Strange that I have none at home, everything is wireless these days. Will test tonight and plan to drive with the MoFi unit to the nearest 3 towers and verify bands. I have ordered a T-mo service to see if I get better results than ATT. I will repeat these steps with the Tmo sim in the Mofi. I am waiting for The Wireless Haven to get the 15dbi antennas in (told they were 10 days out).

Based on several posts, I am thinking I need to replace the 30' ULL cables from WirEng with >10' LMR400 cables and mount the MoFi outside, turn off the wifi/router and use it as a modem only. Run eth cable to separate dedicated indoor wifi router. Thoughts?

Main question is how? How can I power the Mofi unit in a weatherproof box outside? Will POE splitters work, what do I need to consider?

At some point, if this setup works significantly better, I will consider upgrading the MoFi to a better modem. What is the best option in a stand-alone modem that would use the same power source?

Easy..

Plug this into your router:
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/poe-splitters/4 ... -splitter/


And this on the other end:
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/power-adapter/p ... -1-5a-72w/

And that piece into your in home hub or router...

And your powered up!

Mount the router outside in ashot weatherproof enclosure, passing the cables through with glands or other weather tight devices.

You wont technically deactivate the router, but close enough. Details shmeetails

Hello,
Good idea to check out bands available. Bands available is why I still use a Cat 6 modems. Only have band 2 & 12 so don't think there is any benefit in getting a more advance modem. (if there is would like to hear about it please)
With that said here is some other post that might help with the poe stuff.

https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1208#p7864
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1208#p7869

Please let us know if there is a wifi issue with the mofi.

Doesn't appear to be a wifi issue with the MoFi. Here is the test from PC cabled to the Mofi: A minute later with the cable unplugged and wifi enabled: Stats are about the same on my phone with wifi enabled. Bounced between .5 - 1M down and between 1-2M up. Ping times stay between 30-60ms.

I think decent antennas are going to help, but I am skeptical about getting up to 10+ Mbps.

The cables i have suggest they only lose 1.9dbi on 890MHz over 30' so I am not sure a 10' LMR400 is going to make huge improvements, nor will a dedicated wifi router. I am hoping the antennas will pick up some bands I am not seeing currently and allow me to lock onto a band that treats me nicer.

Any other ideals? I will let you know what I get when I test next to the towers.

LogHomeLatency wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 5:44 pm Stats are about the same on my phone with wifi enabled. Bounced between .5 - 1M down and between 1-2M up. Ping times stay between 30-60ms.

".5 - 1M down and between 1-2M up." those seem to be 3G speeds.
Before getting better antennas, I would check the account to make sure that you're getting truly unlimited data, and not some limited crap (something like 10GB high speed, 3G thereafter).
As a test I would borrow another sim from family or friends with the same or different carrier just to check if your speeds are still that low, which should give you a pretty good idea about your issue. Make sure your set the correct APN/TTL values for each sim card being tested.

Hello again.
I agree have always thought something other than signal is causing these issues.
Which is why was thinking there was something wrong with your WiFi.
What are your current TTL settings?

BillA wrote: Tue May 19, 2020 9:41 pm ".5 - 1M down and between 1-2M up." those seem to be 3G speeds.
Before getting better antennas, I would check the account to make sure that you're getting truly unlimited data, and not some limited crap (something like 10GB high speed, 3G thereafter).
As a test I would borrow another sim from family or friends with the same or different carrier just to check if your speeds are still that low, which should give you a pretty good idea about your issue. Make sure your set the correct APN/TTL values.

I get worse metrics with my Samsung S8 on Verizon. Just tested in an upstairs window nearest my antenna and got over 2000ms ping, 100kb down and zippy up. To be 2 miles from a tower.... I must be in a black hole or "cell hell"

gscheb wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 4:54 am Hello again.
I agree have always thought something other than signal is causing these issues.
Which is why was thinking there was something wrong with your WiFi.
What are your current TTL settings?

TTL settings are 65 (Linux-2 65 on the MoFi). Tried the Linux 64 setting and I couldn't connect at all. Can do a custom setting. Any ideas?

Usually a high upload and a terribly low download means your tower is saturated with users and you are being deprioritized.

So is the T-Mobile SIM still coming?

Didneywhorl wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:17 pm Usually a high upload and a terribly low download means your tower is saturated with users and you are being deprioritized.

Hoping the 15dbi antennas allow me to pick up bands that are not saturated. Will I still be deprioritized or is it band specific?

gscheb wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 11:15 pm So is the T-Mobile SIM still coming?

Yes, I opted for the cheapest shipping, I am hoping to get it by Mon. or Tues. next week. I am holding off on driving the MoFi around until I have both SIMs to test with - lazy - it is currently screwed into the wall. Will test with my phones Verizon plan as well.

Not so Super Slow anymore!

Got the T-mo SIM in and fought it for a while. Got it working.

Without adjusting antenna or modifying anything other than carrier and APN, I am now getting 10-20Mbps down. Band scan only shows band 12. Signal stats aren't that much different than before, no surprise, and the ping times are similar.

Still think those 15dbi panels are going to make a big difference.

Alright success story.
You can do allot with 15-20 down.
If you want more could see about tweaking those antennas next to get another band besides 12.

Yel, stronger signal may gain you dome numbers. Good stuff.

Which antennas did you get, specifically?

Didneywhorl wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 10:51 am Which antennas did you get, specifically?

Haven't gotten them yet. I have the Amazon yagi's I mentioned in an earlier post on this string. I am looking to get the 15dbi panels you referenced from The Wireless Haven. Still not back in stock, I check every day.
These specifically: https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/antennas/4g-lte ... l-antenna/

gscheb wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 8:02 am Alright success story.
You can do allot with 15-20 down.
If you want more could see about tweaking those antennas next to get another band besides 12.

Agree, this is a great success story (so far) and despite saying in an earlier post that I had no interest in learning this stuff (just wanted an easy button), I am finding great enjoyment in the journey. I am grateful to all who have patiently helped me along with countless others on this site! Looking forward to 40+Mbps soon.

LogHomeLatency wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 11:43 am Agree, this is a great success story (so far) and despite saying in an earlier post that I had no interest in learning this stuff (just wanted an easy button), I am finding great enjoyment in the journey. I am grateful to all who have patiently helped me along with countless others on this site! Looking forward to 40+Mbps soon.

One of the best investments you can make is to get a higher CAT# modem, such as a Sierra 7511/7565 or Quectel EM12/EM16/EM20 which can aggregate multiple channels for higher speeds. Course a good high gain antennas helps too.

LogHomeLatency wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 7:42 am Not so Super Slow anymore!

Got the T-mo SIM in and fought it for a while. Got it working.

Without adjusting antenna or modifying anything other than carrier and APN, I am now getting 10-20Mbps down.
20200526_083015.jpg

Hello LogHomeLatency,
Taking about activating T-Mobile on this post maybe you can chime in on how you got your plan and sim card please.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=32 ... 8602#p8602

gscheb wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 2:30 pm Hello LogHomeLatency,
Taking about activating T-Mobile on this post maybe you can chime in on how you got your plan and sim card please.
https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=32 ... 8602#p8602

Just did. Thanks!

BillA wrote: Tue May 26, 2020 7:13 pm One of the best investments you can make is to get a higher CAT# modem, such as a Sierra 7511/7565 or Quectel EM12/EM16/EM20 which can aggregate multiple channels for higher speeds. Course a good high gain antennas helps too.

That is what I am finding. I wrote a post a few days ago as a primer for folks like me (https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1286). Mentioned buying an all-in-one device is not wise. I hope to get the antennas set up, wait for the dust to settle (meaning keeping my wife from yelling at me for spending more) and then look into new modems.
Thank you BillA

LogHomeLatency wrote: Fri May 29, 2020 5:20 pm Mentioned buying an all-in-one device is not wise

Sigh, I wish you would put this in bold red letters.

Last evening at our weekly update meeting I had to really put up a fight against a 200 unit order of MoFi Network 4500 SIM7 from going out. There are a large number of youtube and forum posts on how its awesome.

Yeah it's probably going to be a relief but at this scale, we can order something much better. My proposal of actually resurrecting some WISP hardware was shot down though because the community has gone through some of that a few times.

Don't get me started on the Starlink fanboys.

You can build a gigbit router with a WAY better modem for less than the MOFI4500

Hell send me the needs and Ill quote you out a whole set with full specs.

Didneywhorl wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:41 pm Hell send me the needs and Ill quote you out a whole set with full specs.

Will do.

At the moment, we decided that by next week we will be handing out ~$10 (used) USB2 routers with GO loaded with bandwidth monitoring enabled on them to help us collect datapoints.

The assumption being made is that everyone thinks they need super duper Gbps bandwidth but really, they would be OK with sustained 4MBps download with an ability to "burst" download and upload to 10MBps per device.

We need to collect data to figure out whether this is the case.

What's more important, it seems, is to figure out the total volume of traffic they consume.

In other words, it's not high speed people are after but volume - we would have very upset neighbors who had 40Mbps connections and burned through it in a week than neighbors who had 4Mbps connections that lasts them a whole month.

The simplest model would be to charge every household a rate based off how much they consume. Then we can purchase plans from a reseller (or do it ourselves) to get that capacity.

Since we cannot make a profit on this, people are more willing to be transparent and volunteer.

I have taken the responsibility of going the DIY route while the ex-owner of an ex-WISP that used to operate in our area (who we drove out of business in 2019 after mass migrating to the now cancelled TMobile "home ISP" plan) is reaching out to his contacts for a ready to go solution.

Our next presentation to the community is due 20th July once we have a week to collect and report on the numbers. A decision to build or buy will be made soon after

None of this would have been possible without the warm and helpful team we have here on this board!