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Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:29 pm
by xdavidx
swwifty wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:06 pm I currently power my setup with 802.3af. It doesn't look like the PI supports 802.3at from what I can find.

I have a splitter currently on my setup, and haven't noticed any connection issues that appear related to power issues (although i could be wrong, but i've always assumed my disconnects and resets via connection monitoring were due to signal issues).
So the Pi supports POE, but you aren't doing POE to the device? Why the splitter? What type of injector do you have?
swwifty wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:06 pm I guess I'll find out soon enough. My PI currently sits at 3-5 watts usage via PoE with a MC7455 in the USB enclosure.
Wow! That's a tiny amount of power usage! That Pi must use hardly anything! Does it not have wifi? Is that at full download speeds?

How do you measure it? And is that with the Verizon tower or the further away AT&T tower? I'm guessing the distance to the tower will affect the power usage of the modem too.

You'll probably be just fine. I didn't pay super close attention when I had my router plugged into my inverter, but I think it bounced around between 20-30+ watts on the readout. I had my laptop plugged in some of the time, so that caused it to use closer to 100 watts, I think. I guess I could plug it in again if anyone is interested. I'm not sure how accurate the wattage meter is on the inverter.

I ordered a 10 foot 12 volt extension cord last night. I'm going to try that out to see if my setup remains stable with it. It is 18 gauge wire. A lot of those extenders are 20 or 22 gauge. With it being 18 gauge and a shorter length, I'm guessing I'll still be above 11 volts, with the original, thinner wire on the adapter included. For me, 10 feet, plus the original cable, should be plenty to get me out of the attic and to the router.

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm
by swwifty
xdavidx wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:29 pm So the Pi supports POE, but you aren't doing POE to the device? Why the splitter? What type of injector do you have?


Wow! That's a tiny amount of power usage! That Pi must use hardly anything! Does it not have wifi? Is that at full download speeds?

How do you measure it? And is that with the Verizon tower or the further away AT&T tower? I'm guessing the distance to the tower will affect the power usage of the modem too.

You'll probably be just fine. I didn't pay super close attention when I had my router plugged into my inverter, but I think it bounced around between 20-30+ watts on the readout. I had my laptop plugged in some of the time, so that caused it to use closer to 100 watts, I think. I guess I could plug it in again if anyone is interested. I'm not sure how accurate the wattage meter is on the inverter.

I ordered a 10 foot 12 volt extension cord last night. I'm going to try that out to see if my setup remains stable with it. It is 18 gauge wire. A lot of those extenders are 20 or 22 gauge. With it being 18 gauge and a shorter length, I'm guessing I'll still be above 11 volts, with the original, thinner wire on the adapter included. For me, 10 feet, plus the original cable, should be plenty to get me out of the attic and to the router.
I am powering it via PoE. I have a Ubiquiti switch that does 802.3af. I opted to not use the raspberry pi PoE hat cause it was reported to have a lot of issues, so I went with a PoE splitter instead like this: https://www.amazon.com/UCTRONICS-PoE-Sp ... ics&sr=1-3

I was measuring it from the stats on my switch. 3-5 watts was common when it was connected to the AT&T service. I did just notice that my TX power seems to be much much lower now that I'm so close to the Verizon tower and using that. I typically don't see a TX power higher than 0 dbm.

I guess if I want to be absolutely sure about max power usage during high downloads, I should probably get a kill-a-watt device and measure it, before attempting to power the 7565 via POE.

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:06 pm
by xdavidx
swwifty wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm I am powering it via PoE. I have a Ubiquiti switch that does 802.3af. I opted to not use the raspberry pi PoE hat cause it was reported to have a lot of issues, so I went with a PoE splitter instead like this: https://www.amazon.com/UCTRONICS-PoE-Sp ... ics&sr=1-3
Oh yeah, you need 5 volts for the Pi.

I meant not powering the Pi via the Pi's own POE hardware.
swwifty wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm I was measuring it from the stats on my switch. 3-5 watts was common when it was connected to the AT&T service. I did just notice that my TX power seems to be much much lower now that I'm so close to the Verizon tower and using that. I typically don't see a TX power higher than 0 dbm.
Back yard tower!! :lol:

You should be fine then with that setup.
swwifty wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:38 pm I guess if I want to be absolutely sure about max power usage during high downloads, I should probably get a kill-a-watt device and measure it, before attempting to power the 7565 via POE.
You mean in case the switch data isn't accurate? Now you've really got me interested in measuring mine.

The problem with the kill-a-watt is it will measure the input to the AC/DC adapter, but won't give you the true DC current/voltage/wattage to the device. Same with me measuring out of my DC to AC inverter that is then going right back into the AC to DC adapter of the router. The adapter will lose some in the process, so it will read higher than what is being given to the device.

There are these types of meters for DC: https://www.amazon.com/bayite-6-5-100V- ... 1_3&sr=8-3

I think I might buy another, cheaper DC extension cord and cut it and put my regular multimeter on one of the lines so that I can measure this more accurately. Either that, or I'll order one of those DC meters to make it easier.

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:59 pm
by xdavidx
I bought some do-dads to measure some of this. I started a new topic for the power discussion, measurements, etc.: https://wirelessjoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=439

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:17 pm
by serverside
So, just to update this, after everything I did, I'm magically back to low ping, no VPN...I'm going to take a guess and say there was something horribly wrong with the tower I connect to, as I'm back to normal everything.

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:38 pm
by xdavidx
serverside wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:17 pm So, just to update this, after everything I did, I'm magically back to low ping, no VPN...I'm going to take a guess and say there was something horribly wrong with the tower I connect to, as I'm back to normal everything.
Congrats! :D

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:21 am
by serverside
xdavidx wrote: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:38 pmCongrats! :D
I don't know if this is a good or bad thing though, makes me feel like my hands are %100 tied when dealing with this. As who can I call to tell them a tower is crap? Basically no one, I just have to wait almost 2 months for things to get better or hope they get better.

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:38 pm
by xdavidx
serverside wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:21 am I don't know if this is a good or bad thing though, makes me feel like my hands are %100 tied when dealing with this. As who can I call to tell them a tower is crap? Basically no one, I just have to wait almost 2 months for things to get better or hope they get better.
Why couldn't you call Verizon to tell them you are having issues with their service?

Re: Verizon Latency Issues?

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:53 pm
by unbunchster
Falias wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:04 pm
Verizon postpaid unlimited accounts (starting at $75/mo for 1 line) can add a tablet line for $20/mo which is also unlimited for non-hotspot data
postpaid tablets are unlimited in the perverse use of the word. For $20/month you have 'unlimited' use of 15gigs of LTE throughput after which you have 'unlimited' use of "up to" 600Kbps throughput. There is no functional difference between their $20/m 15g hotspot plan.

"yay"

WG

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:58 pm
by unbunchster
Does your vpn provider offer WireGuard?

Re: Verizon Latency Issues?

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:01 am
by BillA
Falias wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:49 pm That tab just adds the following two rules to "Custom Rules" (make sure it's the correct interface)
iptables -t mangle -I POSTROUTING -o wwan0 -j TTL --ttl-set 52
iptables -t mangle -I PREROUTING -i wwan0 -j TTL --ttl-set 52

Verizon CA (at least for me) is only active during during a download/upload... so you may actually be using it without realizing it.

Instead of a Post-Script, here's a Pre-Script:
So I did one of those famous TL;DR thingies, and after carefuly typing up a pageful of suggestions, I decided to maybe search for this weird ping latency issue. To my dismay, someone has already figured it out a while ago, but at least I can sleep better that I also happen to hit upon it among my suggestions without knowing any prior info. Nonetheless it may still make a good reading, if anything for the methods of narrowing down elusive issues. ;)


Well, I'm a bit late to this "latency party", but here are some thoughts on this issue, so grab a coffee or a vape (better yet both;).

While I'm sure you've tried all the other excellent suggestions, I can tell you from experience that Verizon's latency is the highest and most inconsistent compared to ATT's and Tmobile's (can't speak for Sprint because I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole;). In a fairly large midwestern US city I average around 70ms on Verizon, 60ms on ATT, and 40 with Tmobile on my Samsung S9 phone, and about the same on my WG3526 router with a Quectel EP06-A modem (using Tmobile as my primary carrier).

I've read somewhere that Verizon does some weird thing when setting up a data connection (ie. a ping), where it sends the header over QMI then switches back to MBIM mode for the payload, which could have some affect on the latency. It's certainly possible, hope to hear from someone who may have some more info on this.
Before running any of the tests below, temporarily try to disable the router's firewall completely in order to bypass any kind of filtering, and also try to disable IPv6 in both the router and pc. If unable to do so in the router, then at least disable IPv6 on the pc's ethernet card by going to Connection Manager > Change Adapter Settings > right click the ethernet adapter > Properties > uncheck the Internet Protocol Version 6 > OK.

1.
The first test I would run, is to compare the average ping times of the PC to your phone by connecting each separately to the router via WiFi in order to use a common connection method, because it would be inaccurate to compare an ethernet connection to a WiFi.
Connect the pc to the router's WiFi (make sure to unplug the ethernet cable first), run a ping test and take take note of the results average. Disconnect the pc from router's WiFi, and connect your phone to the router's WiFi, again take note of the ping results average, then compare the two. The idea here is to compare the pc's latency to the phone's. We are not looking how high the results are (obviously both will be higher over WiFi), but how much of a difference there is between the two devices. If the pc's latency is higher than the phone's, that would point to an issue with the pc itself, rather than the modem or router (keep in mind both were connected to the router's WiFi).

2.
The second test I would run, is to compare the ping times on the pc using your phone tethered to the router (instead of using the internal modem).
On the router disable WiFi and the internal modem (or better yet physically remove the modem), connect your phone to the router via a usb cable, turn on usb tethering on the phone (Settings > Mobile/Network > USB Tethering), then in the router's settings set up your phone as the main connection. If it's similarly high like your internal modem's values from previous tests, then it's likely that the router is at fault, because now we've eliminated the internal modem as a possible culprit. On the other hand, if it's equal or lower than your internal modem's values from previous tests, then it's likely that the internal modem is at fault. You could try a firmware upgrade on both the modem and router to see it has any affect on the latency.

3.
The third test I would run, is If you had an external M.2/mPCIe to USB adapter/housing, you could test the modem card separately from the router, to see the latency you're getting without the router being in the middle, while connected directly to the pc via usb. High values would indicate some modem issue, low values would indicate a router issue. I would also tether your phone to the pc directly via usb (first disconnect the ethernet cable, turn off WiFi, then on your phone go to Settings > Mobile/Network > USB Tethering), just to see of the latency is somehow caused by your pc. While it's unlikely, you just never know till you have actually tested it.

4.
Last but not least, the different polarization characteristics of the router's antennas compared to your phone's, can certainly have an effect on the latency. A nano-second signal delay between the main and auxiliary antennas can cascade into a multi-milliseconds delay in the radio. So, just because the modem/router are right next to your phone, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are picking up the same RSSI/RSRP/RSRQ/SINR values, even if locked onto the same exact tower/band.

I've learned over 30 years of fixing radio-electronics, that complex systems have many potential points of fault, and the best way to diagnose it is by the process of elimination (aka. the KISS method - Keep It Simple Stupid! lol). In other words, divide and conquer instead of trying to fix the system as a whole. Try to separate the router from the modem and test each module separately, this way you are able to eliminate half of the equation, rather than wasting time trying to fix the parts which don't need fixing at all. ;)

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:40 pm
by chaoticbeliever
try solving all your latency issues with the fastest VPN for gaming and streaming. Ivacy VPN is giving a 7 day trial for all its users to try out the best there is.

Re: Latency Issues? (Solved: QMI > MBIM)

Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:37 pm
by BillA
chaoticbeliever wrote: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:40 pm try solving all your latency issues with the fastest VPN for gaming and streaming. Ivacy VPN is giving a 7 day trial for all its users to try out the best there is.

All VPN's have a certain amount of encryption/decryption overhead, therefore there's not much you can do to lower its latency. That coupled with LTE's own relatively high latency just compounds the issue. 5G will lower the mobile layer's latency, but won't lower the VPN's.