NetGear NightHawk M1 Inside Antenna Ports

[gscheb]

Does anyone know what size these are?

Nighthawk M1 Antenna Ports.pptx.png

[terryjett]

Funny you should ask this, are you tracking me? LOL

I was looking at the nighthawk for a non-profit venture few months back and tore it apart. Noticed these ports. After some research it seems these are proprietary and closest (do not fit well) are "Hirose MS156" type connectors.

Told that the actual size oft port is "Netgear Proprietary" and not on the market. Not 100% positive of that but gave up on finding exact.

Also, after research seems these are for frequencies above 2.1GHz (2100MHz) and will not increase performance on lower frequencies. For example band 41 on Sprint - 2,502 - 2,690 MHz.

In my case, determined it was not worth exploring further. Your mileage may differ.

There are kits for this, but they really do not seem worth the effort. Search for "Netgear Nighthawk M1 MR1100 Two Internal Antenna Access Modification Kit" on EBay.

[gscheb]

Ok
So trying to get more performance on T-Mobile band 2 and 12. Connecting to these won't help me then? Nothing to gain having 4 antennas?
Do you think I could solder some wires on the two other ports? The normal ones. Reason to do this just so don't have to deal with the flakey TS9 ports. Thinking maybe could buy some sma connector leads like the WE826 router has and solder them in there. Then would have a good wired connection.

[terryjett]

So trying to get more performance on T-Mobile band 2 and 12. Connecting to these won't help me then? Nothing to gain having 4 antennas?

Since I did not carry it any further than research, I cannot say with 100% surety that it will not help. Just have my doubts that you will see any big improvement if any at all.

Do you think I could solder some wires on the two other ports?

I would say that totally depends on your level of skill and experience. If you do not have good solder skills, you can easily overheat small components or even solder small components together. Things are very tiny these days.

Me, myself and I: we would try it in a heart beat but we are risk takers and experimenters:)

And again, I have never tried the mod you are talking about (btw, very good idea) so not 100% sure, but would be worth a shot.

[Didneywhorl]

Ive been told the antennas, even when getting a set of the custom hirose connectors, arent used here on USA frequencies and takes some work to get operating even for the limited band they use.

[gscheb]

Hello again,

So looking at this again to possibly solder on some sma connectors to get better connection than ts9 ports. Is this the adapter you think could possible be used?

MS-156 to sma female.PNG

[Didneywhorl]

What is the ms-156 connector for?

Ideally the connector on the device would be an SMA female.

thewirelesshaven.com has a ts9 to sma adapter....

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/rf-connectors/s ... e-adapter/

[Didneywhorl]

Hirose ms-156, nvm

[Didneywhorl]

So that sma connector would be great if you had a hole to mount it to.

[terryjett]

I assume you are cutting the ms-156 off and using the sma female to connect existing antennas to (sma make). If so, should work just fine.

Keep the pigtails short as possible. What I have done in past is drill small holes and route coax through them, then solder. Just on the inside of plastic case, use a small tyrap around coax to prevent them from being pulled lose.

[gscheb]

Well was thinking of just soldering on the ms-156 right to the ports shown in the picture above. If they are a close match to the antenna port. Then drill holes in the top face for the 90 to reach down to it.
Kind of like this picture shown here. You think this is possible?

Solder 90.PNG

[terryjett]

Oh, I see. Something like the ones from ebay:)

Since I have never tried can only go by what ebay seller is saying. Hate to say it will work when never trying it myself.

If you are comfortable with doing this to your nighthawk, go for it. Just remember - doing something like this voids all warranties and will provide lifetime holes in cover:) Be very careful with amount of heat applied to those tiny on board connectors, melting them is VERY easy.

[gscheb]

Well aware of the risks that it could ruin it. It is a used unlocked one from ebay. Learned when it comes to the LTE game have to be willing to loose money and time. There is no definite answers to nothing.
If it does work don't care if it is ugly. Will end up in an enclosure or the attic anyway being powered over Ethernet.
Will never understand why anyone would want those ts9 connectors. Think they are terrible.

[terryjett]

Well aware of the risks that it could ruin it. It is a used unlocked one from ebay. Learned when it comes to the LTE game have to be willing to loose money and time. There is no definite answers to nothing.
If it does work don't care if it is ugly. Will end up in an enclosure or the attic anyway being powered over Ethernet.
Will never understand why anyone would want those ts9 connectors. Think they are terrible.

That's the sprint I love! Started tinkering with electronics back in 1966 (dads radio) and have never stopped till this day.

TS-9 connectors: I am in agreement with you 250%! I do not know for sure, but think the ts-9 female port must have started out as temporary test ports. Just not something that is made for continuous use. Then again, maybe the carriers encourage use of TS-9 to discourage users from having a strong signal - kind of like bandwidth control, lol

[Didneywhorl]

Hell, go for it. I still remind that the ports themselves may not be useful. I can not for the life of me remember where I read that they are only used for a particular band used overseas. But Id go for it anyway.

[gscheb]

Yes I think you are right about the overseas thing, read it too. I want to put this on the ports we use here in the US. Just to eliminate those terrible ts9 ports that cause me issues with connectivity. In my opinion this is the largest down fall of the Nighthawk M1.

[Didneywhorl]

Ten 4

[BillA]

Does anyone know what size these are?

Nighthawk M1 Antenna Ports.pptx.png

If I had to guess, those four extra connectors on the pcb may be used for external WiFi antennas, a pair for each band 2.4GHz and 5Ghz. As a second guess, they could also be LTE or WiFi "IF (Intermediary Frequency) test connectors, especially given their spread out layout, usually cellular antenna connectors are usually fairly close to each other.
Just based on Terryjett's "after research seems these are for frequencies above 2.1GHz" would make sense since WiFi bands are above that range. Moreover I've read that even when connected they don't seem to improve the cellular reception. Multiple antennas on cellular modems are usually not designed for different frequencies, but for MIMO (Multiple In Multiple Out) antenna pairs to improve bandwidth/throughput/CA. If anything, those 4 extra antennas could improve your WiFi signal.
I may have guessed wrong, but then again haven't seen any proof for being cellular antennas either.
However, I do have a question, has anyone looked on the other side of the board and identified the cellular modem's make and model? Is it a plug-in card or permanently soldered to the main board?
But don't worry, the Nighthawk "M2" will look like a porcupine with 6 factory mounted antennas... oh wait isn't that the WG3526?! xD

[terryjett]

Seems like most of these style routers are all "on board" modems.

Looked at old notes and found this, which may be of interest (be sure to let the slowwww fcc site fully load images):

https://fccid.io/PY317200378/Internal-P ... os-3548019

There are some labels that might help decide which ports to play with.

[gscheb]

Looks like a all in one thing to me.

Nighthawk M1 Other side.PNG

Here is a Video of someone taking one apart if that helps.
Where this picture came from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8NS_FLUwwQ

[BillA]

Looks like a all in one thing to me.

Nighthawk M1 Other side.PNG

Here is a Video of someone taking one apart if that helps.
Where this picture came from.

Looks like the cellular modem is on the sim card tray side (likely soldered on) under the metal cans with the white sticker over it.
Well, the only way to tell for sure whether they are LTE or WiFi antennas, is by measuring both signals at a distance, with and without the antennas attached.

[Tanbam]

I know that this thread is a bit old, but I’ve done some simple tests using the internal antenna connectors.

I wasn’t happy with the drilling holes in the front strategy, so I modified the board a bit and soldered on a couple of U.FL connectors alongside the proprietary antenna connectors. Don’t worry, I’m a professional!

I’m not entirely convinced that the connector labeled “3” is for the LTE antenna, because it doesn’t have the same components around it as 1, 2, and 4, but I routed it and “4” out of the case using U.FL to SMA pigtails. I had to modify some of the internal plastic case to get it to fit, and just made small notches just big enough to fit the pigtail cables through.

It seems that there are seven internal antennas, so I’m not sure which is which.

Anyway, after I had the cables routed out, I hooked it up to my 4x4 panel. My signal, just the simple one in the web GUI, improved by 15dBm. I’m pretty rural and far from the tower, but my download speeds went from about 30Mbps to 65Mbps.

I tried it with and without the internal antennas plugged in and saw no difference in speeds at all. Removing the antenna from connector 2 dropped my speed from 65Mbps to around 40Mbps, and removing the last connector from antenna 1 dropped it back down to 30Mbps.

In the web GUI, only antenna 1 made any difference in the displayed signal levels, but I realize that that doesn’t show the full picture.

In summary, routing the internal antenna jacks to the outside and connecting them to an external antenna resulted in no improvement - at least for the bands that I’m using here. I’m quite sure that the method that I used was better than the eBay kits, as I examined one of those types of connectors that they use and don’t think that they would be grounded properly. The U.FL connectors that I installed resulted in a very solid connection, but no improvement.

[Didneywhorl]

I know that this thread is a bit old, but I’ve done some simple tests using the internal antenna connectors.

I wasn’t happy with the drilling holes in the front strategy, so I modified the board a bit and soldered on a couple of U.FL connectors alongside the proprietary antenna connectors. Don’t worry, I’m a professional!

I’m not entirely convinced that the connector labeled “3” is for the LTE antenna, because it doesn’t have the same components around it as 1, 2, and 4, but I routed it and “4” out of the case using U.FL to SMA pigtails. I had to modify some of the internal plastic case to get it to fit, and just made small notches just big enough to fit the pigtail cables through.

It seems that there are seven internal antennas, so I’m not sure which is which.

Anyway, after I had the cables routed out, I hooked it up to my 4x4 panel. My signal, just the simple one in the web GUI, improved by 15dBm. I’m pretty rural and far from the tower, but my download speeds went from about 30Mbps to 65Mbps.

I tried it with and without the internal antennas plugged in and saw no difference in speeds at all. Removing the antenna from connector 2 dropped my speed from 65Mbps to around 40Mbps, and removing the last connector from antenna 1 dropped it back down to 30Mbps.

In the web GUI, only antenna 1 made any difference in the displayed signal levels, but I realize that that doesn’t show the full picture.

In summary, routing the internal antenna jacks to the outside and connecting them to an external antenna resulted in no improvement - at least for the bands that I’m using here. I’m quite sure that the method that I used was better than the eBay kits, as I examined one of those types of connectors that they use and don’t think that they would be grounded properly. The U.FL connectors that I installed resulted in a very solid connection, but no improvement.

Awesome work! Thanks!

[gscheb]

I bought some connectors to do this but looked to hard to Solder them on.
This is what I did do which helped getting better connection on the two normal ports. Only issue is solder is very weak if you put pressure on it. So over time they start to get loose. Don't know if I would recommend doing this.

IMG_20200303_193732860.jpg

IMG_20200303_201129388.jpg

[terryjett]

I bought some connectors to do this but looked to hard to Solder them on.
This is what I did do which helped getting better connection on the two normal ports. Only issue is solder is very weak if you put pressure on it. So over time they start to get loose. Don't know if I would recommend doing this.

Great idea!

When making mods like this, you should try using SMA made for PCB's. Notice the 4 (four) fingers on link below, they fit over the PCB and soldered to the ground copper foil. Center post of course is for the signal output:

https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK

51nM3j6D5cL._AC_SL1001_.jpg

https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK

[BillA]

Great idea!

When making mods like this, you should try using SMA made for PCB's. Notice the 4 (four) fingers on link below, they fit over the PCB and soldered to the ground copper foil. Center post of course is for the signal output:

And of course you could hang this great Andy Warhol painting on the wall, right behind the router.
Gotta love the artistic side of the mobile router industry. he-he

[terryjett]

And of course you could hang this great Andy Warhol painting on the wall, right behind the router.
Gotta love the artistic side of the mobile router industry. he-he

What you talkin bout willis? Now you making fun of the wallpaper in my bathroom...

[Tanbam]

Great idea!

When making mods like this, you should try using SMA made for PCB's. Notice the 4 (four) fingers on link below, they fit over the PCB and soldered to the ground copper foil. Center post of course is for the signal output:

https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK

51nM3j6D5cL._AC_SL1001_.jpg

https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK

I’ve got a ton of these. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of doing this while I had it open. Looks like a project for tomorrow afternoon...

[gscheb]

Hello
Might not be clear in the picture but had to cut out the plastic case some to get it to fit. To make room for the sma fittings.
Maybe this picture will show it. More like slots now instead of holes.

IMG_20200303_201145914.jpg

[Dr-BroadBand]

Netgear Nighthawk M1 MR1100 Modem Router Modification 4x4 MIMO Antenna

See YouTube https://youtu.be/oMa0cd87r6Y

[terryjett]

Netgear Nighthawk M1 MR1100 Modem Router Modification 4x4 MIMO Antenna

See YouTube https://youtu.be/oMa0cd87r6Y

Cool video!

No offense but that kit is pricey. But, might be better for those without soldering and construction skills.

About $12 in sma connectors, round file (dremel w/round sander attachment be helpful but not required), soldering iron and little patience, you can have a much better (and looking) mod:)

Remove the old ts-9's, replace with the PCB SMA connectors ( https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK ) and very stable setup.

If I had one of these hotspots, would make a quick tutorial. Maybe that be a future project. Will be flood of them on ebay after the home schooling dies out...

[gscheb]

I heard that those antennas on the inside are not for the us. But don't know if that is true or not.

[gscheb]

Great idea!

When making mods like this, you should try using SMA made for PCB's. Notice the 4 (four) fingers on link below, they fit over the PCB and soldered to the ground copper foil. Center post of course is for the signal output:

https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK

51nM3j6D5cL._AC_SL1001_.jpg

https://amzn.to/3j6oIvK

Hello
Looking at AT&T plans again. So looking into doing this now. Ordered those type of fittings to solder then on the board. The pin is larger than the ts9 ports so don't fit in there.
Am I missing something?

[websiteperson]

Any luck with this? I just ordered a used one off eBay. Moments later, I saw a post on the Netgear forums, that said the internal antennas were for 1800-2700mhz. They also said the external TS-9 ports were for 700mhz bands. There is no band 13 support (right?), so I'm not sure how accurate this is. The same person also said the internal ports were uFL SMD. Can you verify this?

I definitely need band 2 & 66, 1900mhz & 2100mhz, respectively, as I'll be using on Visible, hopefully.

[gscheb]

I never did all four antennas. Just the two of them. The issue is they come loose after while. Soldier is not super strong when you are screwing wires on over and over.

[Sintrail]

I know that this thread is a bit old, but I’ve done some simple tests using the internal antenna connectors.

I wasn’t happy with the drilling holes in the front strategy, so I modified the board a bit and soldered on a couple of U.FL connectors alongside the proprietary antenna connectors. Don’t worry, I’m a professional!

I’m not entirely convinced that the connector labeled “3” is for the LTE antenna, because it doesn’t have the same components around it as 1, 2, and 4, but I routed it and “4” out of the case using U.FL to SMA pigtails. I had to modify some of the internal plastic case to get it to fit, and just made small notches just big enough to fit the pigtail cables through.

It seems that there are seven internal antennas, so I’m not sure which is which.

Anyway, after I had the cables routed out, I hooked it up to my 4x4 panel. My signal, just the simple one in the web GUI, improved by 15dBm. I’m pretty rural and far from the tower, but my download speeds went from about 30Mbps to 65Mbps.

I tried it with and without the internal antennas plugged in and saw no difference in speeds at all. Removing the antenna from connector 2 dropped my speed from 65Mbps to around 40Mbps, and removing the last connector from antenna 1 dropped it back down to 30Mbps.

In the web GUI, only antenna 1 made any difference in the displayed signal levels, but I realize that that doesn’t show the full picture.

In summary, routing the internal antenna jacks to the outside and connecting them to an external antenna resulted in no improvement - at least for the bands that I’m using here. I’m quite sure that the method that I used was better than the eBay kits, as I examined one of those types of connectors that they use and don’t think that they would be grounded properly. The U.FL connectors that I installed resulted in a very solid connection, but no improvement.

This deterred me from trying this, but reading it again, I may have it wrong. Are you saying that you hooked two antennas up to the outside ports and then two to the inside?

From what I understand using the outside antenna ports completely disables the internal ones. If that's the case, you'd have to use all 4 of the internal ports. Is it possible you can try this and report back?

[BaroonTech9]

Using the external ports does not show to disable the internal ports. The internal ports are designed for high frequency bands. If used in rural areas, where 700mhz 4G and 800mhz 3G is used, then the mod kit would not achieve anything. The main reason for the mod is for suburban use where you have a loss of signal inside your house, and so require an external signal gain. The ports can be paired with a mimo 4x4 antenna for easy installation.

[oddstan]

Hi
Have any1 tried to solder internal extender pigtail to 3 and 4 connectors/lanes to make two additional ext ports?

[Didneywhorl]

The frequency range of those ports aren't in line with US supported bands. Only good for EU and AU it appears.

[wiz.au]

I wish there was more definitive information on this mod. I tried these connectors to internal ports 3 & 4, but they didn't click on properly and I put it down to 'cheap' connectors from China.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32870236862.html

MS156-SMAF.jpg

Then I removed the steel spring sleeve & tried to solder them on around the outside joint interface to the shell of the socket on the PCB, but ended up ripping one of the sockets off the board when trying to reassemble.

I guess that means my soldering was good!

What I think I missed is that ADLOZ's eBay conversion kit (& others using MS156 connectors) doesn't 'click' on either, and uses the hot melt glue to hold the push down MS156 R/A plug into the socket. That's not a very good connection on the earth/shield! It's 'just' touching and could disconnect very easily.

What is also not covered much elsewhere (this thread seems to have more information than any other) is that when you push in the MS156 male plug into the socket on the PCB, it disconnects the internal antennas. That's how MS-156 PCB test point sockets work. They are designed for temporary test points.

Similarly if you look carefully on the back of the TS9's fitted to this unit, they are also 'disconnect' style as there is two wires going into the centre pin of the socket and only one of them is connected when you plug in a TS9 connector. It disconnects the internal antenna(s). When you remove the TS9 plug, the socket joins those two wires together and reconnects the radio to the internal antenna(s).

So if you simply remove the TS9 socket and solder on a SMA female, and solder BOTH of those wires to the centre conductor of the SMA, you have BOTH internal & external antennas connected, which is less than desirable. Fixing a TS9-SMA(F) adapter into the TS9 socket might get you the capability of using LMR200 (LMR400! ) cable instead of micro coax, but also introduces another join loss point, and permanently disables the internal antennas, if you wanted the unit to still be portable.

I believe the ideal solution for a permanent installation would be to identify the spring contacts that connect the PCB to the internal antennas, remove the springs and solder some SMA connectors to those pads, replacing the internal antennas. But that's for a permanent installation like I am doing. If you still want the pebble to be portable with internal antennas, then you would need to do something different.