EM9191 and Router Convo

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AlteredLogic
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EM9191 and Router Convo

Post by AlteredLogic »

Didneywhorl wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 12:18 pm NEXP1GOs are incoming, but maybe two weeks or so out.

Everything else should be in stock.
What would be the next best option if I didn't want to wait? I want to plug the router into a Netduma R2 without getting a double NAT

I also have a question about the 5G USB adapter enclosure burning out modems and sim cards, if that's the case then what would be the alternative if you couldn't use the usb enclosures? Would a Mofi 5500 EM9191 or Cudy P5 5G be better for an outdoor 4x4 mimo enclosure?
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

AlteredLogic wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:14 pm
What would be the next best option if I didn't want to wait? I want to plug the router into a Netduma R2 without getting a double NAT
The NEXS2GO with a 48V to 12V splitter.

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/route ... go-bundle/

https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/poe/p ... lug-tip-2/

AlteredLogic wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:14 pm I also have a question about the 5G USB adapter enclosure burning out modems and sim cards, if that's the case then what would be the alternative if you couldn't use the usb enclosures? ...
I hate that this is an issue at all, but so far this has only happened to two customers out of hundreds. Both replaced 100%, no further issues. I'd say there is no issue to worry about overall.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
Okay thank you, I'm guessing the NEXS2GO has a feature that I can use it with a Netduma R2 without causing a double NAT? I guess I'd plug it into the Netduma WAN port after I run it through the poe brick.

Alright that makes me feel better about getting one. The 5G usb adapter enclosure has two power options so would I have to not only run power to the router with poe but also have a phone charger plugged up to the adapter for extra power while plugged into the router's usb slot?
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

AlteredLogic wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:43 pm @Didneywhorl
Okay thank you, I'm guessing the NEXS2GO has a feature that I can use it with a Netduma R2 without causing a double NAT? I guess I'd plug it into the Netduma WAN port after I run it through the poe brick.
You would want to apply a static IP to the WAN and LAN ports of the NEXS2GO, then disable DHCP on those interfaces. That should allow the R2 to handle all routing tasks without creating an extra NAT. You can also disable the firewall on the NEXS2GO if you prefer to only have one firewall, though I would suggest port forwarding instead if possible.
AlteredLogic wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 4:43 pm Alright that makes me feel better about getting one. The 5G usb adapter enclosure has two power options so would I have to not only run power to the router with poe but also have a phone charger plugged up to the adapter for extra power while plugged into the router's usb slot?
You would only need the aux power if you find that the modem shuts down during heavy downloads. (a symptom of low power)
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
Never heard of doing it like that, that's interesting, I previously just put my old router on IP Passthrough. I appreciate the advice thank you.

That's good to know, I guess I'll figure it out if I have to install power to the aux.

I also need to lock the modem to T-Mobile 5G n71 SA, so how would I go about doing that and which modem is the best to maintain a solid connection? Mofi Network on Reddit mentioned the em9191 being the best I believe but I've seen reports of customers struggling to band lock the em9191.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Jflex113 »

There is an AT command At!selrat=? you can send to sierra modems and specifically on the em91xx series modems you can choose to do "5G Only" and it will only run 5G SA mode if it's available, which with T-Mobile it usually is especially with n71
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Jflex113 That's pretty neat, thank you for letting me know, I guess the Em9191 is probably the best modem to go with. Is it still having a problem with newer firmware versions so you have to use an old one?
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

Problems with new firmware? I've never had problems with the latest firmware, functionally.

Where is that being said? Im gunna guess mofi is telling people this, since they are still using the release beta firmware. I could be wrong, but they do still use the old beta firmware ... last I checked.

Initially the only "problem" I experienced was an inability to flash the modem with a simple Windows .exe file. You have to use a command line app to update it properly, and the Windows version seems to over write the last version installed, versus placing the new firmware in an open fw slot. It's not a problem if you know how to use the Sierra tools properly.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

Band locking isn't bad, it's just different than before. The AT command manual explains it .... Just not real well, lol.

I'll post a tutorial on it here soon.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
I don't remember where I saw it, what I do remember is mofi basically saying the EM9191 is the best.

Okay, I'll just pay extra for Wireless Haven to update the firmware.

I have no idea how to do any of this stuff so that tutorial would be a great help.

My house is showing the mountain icon for band 71 and n71, I guess that's one bar or less of service so hopefully that 4x4 mimo panel can help the signal.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Esoteric »

AlteredLogic wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:53 pm
Okay, I'll just pay extra for Wireless Haven to update the firmware.
Worth noting that Wireless Haven will only update your firmware to the latest that supports all carriers, which at this point is quite old.

it's probably worth learning how to update the firmware yourself if you can find the time.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Esoteric Alright I might have to look into that, thank you for letting me know.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

Esoteric wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 12:31 pm
AlteredLogic wrote: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:53 pm
Okay, I'll just pay extra for Wireless Haven to update the firmware.
Worth noting that Wireless Haven will only update your firmware to the latest that supports all carriers, which at this point is quite old.

it's probably worth learning how to update the firmware yourself if you can find the time.

Not true at all. The latest gets flashed to the EM9191, as of roughly the last two month or so.

But, also a good idea to learn how to do it.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
Good to know thank you. I'd have to see how to do it.

I looked on this map https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-roamd-5 band 71 and n71 have the Outdoors icon, what does that mean?
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

Means you should expect to see coverage outdoors.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
Okay thank you, I just wanted to ask because I've heard that if you only have the outdoors icon then you won't get service.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl Do you know when the 2x2 mimo High Beam antenna will be back in stock? Also, when will the outdoor antenna enclosure bundles come back in stock?
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

AlteredLogic wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:38 pm @Didneywhorl Do you know when the 2x2 mimo High Beam antenna will be back in stock? Also, when will the outdoor antenna enclosure bundles come back in stock?
The High Beam X2 is working on getting built in the US. The process is taking MUCH longer than wanted. No ETA to speak of.

Shoot me a link to the specific bundle(s) you are talking about and I'll see what can be done, even if swapping in alternative antennas to make the bundles more regularly available.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
That's unfortunate, I don't have the link but it was a bundle and it had a router and modem inside the 4x4 mimo enclosure for about $1,200. There was also an option to get it built by the wireless haven so I was going to just get that so everything would be set up correctly.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

@AlteredLogic , email info@thewirelesshaven and they'll get you squared up. I'll make sure of it.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl , Very much appreciated, still thinking about what antenna I want to go with. I wanted to get something like the high beam 2x2 mimo antenna to maximize signal gain but like you said previously its not available. Do you have any recommendations for a similar product? I know of the 2x2 and 4x4 mimo panel antennas on the website but I didn't know if you tried weboost, poynting, wave form, etc. I live in a forested area with tall trees. Current signal strength with pig tails from modem to paddle antennas is -118 -113 b66.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

AlteredLogic wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:33 pm @Didneywhorl , Very much appreciated, still thinking about what antenna I want to go with. I wanted to get something like the high beam 2x2 mimo antenna to maximize signal gain but like you said previously its not available. Do you have any recommendations for a similar product? I know of the 2x2 and 4x4 mimo panel antennas on the website but I didn't know if you tried weboost, poynting, wave form, etc. I live in a forested area with tall trees. Current signal strength with pig tails from modem to paddle antennas is -118 -113 b66.
The High Beam antennas are getting a pretty big change, hopefully sooner than later. The change is a plan to get them made here in the US. Huge news in it's own right.


I have tried, and own, the Waveform and Poynting antennas. Weboost I haven't seen anything original from.

Weboost and Waveform both are cellular phone booster companies that are just trying to expand their base market into the cellular modem realm, pretty smart really. Poynting is an antenna company, plain and simple. WiFiX is a brand of Wireless Haven / LTE FIX, a cellular connectivity equipment provider that sources, and creates, solutions specifically for wireless data connectivity... and the creator of this free to use forum. :)


For the forested areas the flat panel directional type has been, and still is, my general recommendation.

The WiFix, Poynting, and Waveform panels all pretty much perform similarly. The gain ratings are all about the same, though some of the marketing is misleading as the gain from low frequency to high frequency is a range, not a set number. Check out the gain charts of each and see which you may prefer. I overall like the case of the WiFiX better than the others, but I'm biased ;). The Waveform is a bit bleh in design look, but it's low budget is attractive enough for some. The Poynting is pretty cool looking.

The WiFiX has been around the longest, I believe, especially in the 4x4 MIMO realm. WiFiX is also the only one that has the option for antenna and enclosure in one.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl Thank you very much for the information. I didn't mean to put you in a bad spot I just thought you may have tested other antennas and maybe had an idea for an alternative with similar gain if I couldn't get the high beam mimo antenna. Does the equipment have a return policy if it doesn't work for me? Like the 4x4 mimo antenna, modem, router, etc.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

AlteredLogic wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:32 pm @Didneywhorl Thank you very much for the information. I didn't mean to put you in a bad spot I just thought you may have tested other antennas and maybe had an idea for an alternative with similar gain if I couldn't get the high beam mimo antenna. Does the equipment have a return policy if it doesn't work for me? Like the 4x4 mimo antenna, modem, router, etc.
No worries. I'm always trying to be as helpful as possible, and I don't like when other companies are misleading with marketing. There isn't another antenna like the High Beam and High Beam X2 on the market that I have found. All others are generally copies of each other and offer basically the same Gain range 7-9dBi. Some say 10 dBi or 11dBi but if you pay attn to the gain chart (if they publicly post it), that gain is in a range that isn't really useful.


Example1:
Screenshot 2022-09-29 084752.png
This is from Waveform
The marketing says "Up to 9 dBi gain between 1710 and 2700 MHz, and 6 dBi gain between 600 MHz and 900 MHz."
The spec sheet says, "5.5-9.5 dBi" in the blurb, then says 9.0 +/- 0.5 dBi gain in the 1690-2700 MHz range.
....But if you look at the above chart on their spec sheet it shows a max of ~7.6 in the high frequency range and ~8dBi in the low frequency range. The actual peaks are for bands in the 1900-2100 range, higher (~7.6dBi) for 2100MHz. That is for B1,2, and 25.

It's confusing at the least, but it continues across companies....

Example 2:
Screenshot 2022-09-29 085550.png
This one is a little clearer, but the marketing is misleading still. Antenna from Poynting
Spec sheet is where the pic is from.
Marketing just says 698 - 2700 MHz, 9dBi. No range. Nothing.
Spec sheet at least distinguishes better:
8 dBi is the peak gain across all bands from 698 – 2700 MHz
Gain @ 698 – 960 MHz: 8 dBi
Gain @ 1710 – 2170 MHz: 6.5 dBi
Gain @ 2300 – 2700 MHz: 9 dBi
Now look at the two max dbi locations on the charts. roughly 2500-2600MHz. Tmobile/Sprint Band 41 is the only close band here @ 2496MHz-2690MHz. Mostly covered with a little fall off. Which other bands are covered in this specific maximum gain range? None in the US.

Example 3:
Screenshot 2022-09-29 090250.png
https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/anten ... onnectors/
Marketing says 7dBi, no range, but as we can see this is common for marketing. BUT the max is actually about 7.8dBi (Similar antennas on the site say 8dBi, not much of a stretch though)
But if you look at the chart the max dBi is a wider range that spans between 2300 and 2500MHz. Now we are getting into support at that dBi for B30 and B41. There's also a ~7.5dBi blip in the range for B4, B66, and some fall off at about 7dBi for Bands 1,2 and 25.



The High Beam X2 max dBi is around 2750MHz. Not super useful in the US. Marketing. BUT in the above matched ranges of max dBi the High Beam X2 is ~14dBi (nearly double the others).


Anyways .. .you get my point.


There isn't really an open buy, try, return policy.... but there are cases for returns with a restocking fee. Fee is just to recondition the products for resale as used.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
Yeah my intention was to buy the 4x4 mimo panel but I wanted to shop around to make sure it was the right choice for the best gain because I don't know if I'll pick up a signal strong enough for gaming without packet loss and ping spikes. Currently dealing with that on Verizon and it's frustrating. The price is what kept me away so far and I've tried to see if I could fix the verizon connection because I usually have 40-60 ping but at peak hours the ping becomes more unstable with spikes to 1,000 sometimes and packet loss from 1-7 to about 600 along with the speeds down and up dropping significantly. Thank you for the explanation and I appreciate your honesty. So your saying I can't return this bundle, https://thewirelesshaven.com/shop/route ... re-bundle/ , if it doesn't work for me? I need to be able to return it if it doesn't work for me.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

The issue is the use of the bundle requires modifying the components. It's a customized build to get it all together. You can't return something like that because it's custom by default just to use it properly.

You can definitely sell it, but return a product with holes drilled in it and parts stuck together for all of your money back? No company would do that, that I know of.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

@Didneywhorl
When you buy a $2,000 prebuilt computer from NZXT is that not the same? They have warranties and returns. Same thing if you go to a computer store and buy one from them. I'd be paying wireless haven to build it, if it doesn't work at my house I lose $1,200. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a lot of money saved so I need to get over half the price back if anything.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

Hear me out all the way to the end, please. :)

No, not the same. Different industry, different treatment of parts, different costs, different expectations of equipment, etc etc. You also don't place a PC in the sun and rain to test and use it.

Also, PCs have a different benchmark not affected by location. It will always be X speed, as advertised, unless it's malfuncitoning. If it is, no one would argue that a replacement or refund would be in order.

Cellular system speeds depend on cell towers, plans, location specifics, etc. All controlled by cellular providers and their contractors. Many variables not under the control of the equipment itself. Someone would want to return it if the system doesn't get a subjective, to them, speed metric that is of zero fault of the parts manufacturers or the store assembly team for the custom built system; but it is still expected to be returnable. This is not the same as a PC system, their capabilities are not affected by outside forces and variables, especially not effected by the customers location.


On another note: If you purchased all of the parts separately and assembled it yourself, drilling and all, you wouldn't expect to return it, but if the haven builds it you should be able to? How is this different?

If you could put all the parts back to their original state basically untouched, just like you would with a home PC build, then that would be a different story I'd think. "None the wiser"

Look, I'm not arguing that it's not a lot of money and investment. I am saying you're not out all of the money, you can sell it, that store doesn't take back used items, especially custom ones. It's in their terms on the site. At least at this point.

I would bet any store that sells similar items would not. Try sending just an outdoor enclosure, with holes drilled in it, back for a full refund to any business that sells that sort of thing. I don't think it'll get approved.

I think you are saying you can't resell it for anything near what you would potentially pay, but that the store should absorb that and somehow be able, or want, to resell a now used product at a loss. Not because the product is a bad product or malfunctioning, which The Wireless Haven would 100% back with a fix or replacement, but because your location may not provide the speeds you wish to gain from it.


From my own personal view, it is a very difficult decision to not take all returns back from all customers. As this conversation shows, the amount spent on such items makes it a very emotional reaction when someone hears they may not get their money back in full from the store. BUT it always proves out that the reason people want to make these kinds of returns is for problems that are 100% out of the control of the store, and of the manufacturer of the items in question. Yet, it is still expected to be the store that takes the loss. Again, this is a different conversation than one on support for a malfunctioning product, or damaged item upon receipt. That is 100% always going to be allowed and accepted for replacements and full personal support for every customer. But it's being put in the same barrel, so to speak.

As an aside, I can personally say that everything will be done to ensure that these antenna builds are not being built better by anyone else anywhere. Period. They are also not supported after sale better by anyone else, anywhere. Period.

And if you want me to seal the deal, email the store with my name in the content and ask about a little upgrade to the system in question and I might be able to get you a little boost in product. Keep you on the cutting edge. ;)
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

To me it's the same thing other than the being outside part. You buy a computer to do a certain task, come to find out it can't do it the way you want so you return it and yes you will be given a full refund. If you buy different parts for a computer for a build, cpu, thermal paste for the cpu, cpu cooler, case, motherboard, ram sticks, power supply, accessories for it, screws to put it all together, etc. you can return all of that. I understand what you mean by its not your product that isn't working it's more about the provider in the area not performing at the location. I understand if you don't want returns if a customer built it themselves but if your the one that built it there should be no problems refunding the money for it, even half of it, you could put it in the used section or use the parts in the build for a different setup, that's my ideas on it. You can get a router from almost anyone else and have a return policy within around 7-30 days. If you want to go the outdoor route let me use this website as an example https://www.outdoorrouter.com/product/n ... -antennas/ , yes it may not be the exact same product but it is very similar and yet they offer a 15 day money back and they have a 1-year warranty. I'm not really interested in the product because they have lower category modem and no 5G options as far as I know. I also will say yes if wireless haven built the all in one outdoor antenna enclosure and the customer opened it and tried to mess with it then yes that could technically void a warranty like other electronic products if you had that feature with the product and therefore the refund would be gone because you couldn't cover that anymore. Seeing as it is though that wireless haven would build it, I would not open it, and if the signal wasn't stable for my needs then yes it should be able to be sent back for a refund or even half the price of it back. It's about standing behind a product in its entirety once you've built it and supporting it throughout the trial period and the warranty that has been set. To me a trial period aka the return duration is used for the customer to see if the product is for them and/or if there are any mishaps or issues the customer can return it no problem. I appreciate your help throughout this year, you are extremely helpful and I see the work you do throughout this forum. Thank you very much for taking the time for all of us. Also I just wanted to say I'm not trying to argue either and even if I don't buy the all in one bundle I still know the wireless haven has extremely well built antennas and products, I've researched many forums on reddit and on this website. I'd still be interested in the 4x4 mimo antenna and maybe some other things. =)
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by mtl26637 »

Hey AlteredLogic,

This thread has bounced around quite a bit. I understand that is a lot of money. What you might try to do is do some serious research on what signals are available with the carriers you have access to. As Didneywhorl suggested, its not all hardware in the end, the available signal is just as important. Depending on your location you may not have access to "SA" only, I know I don't. Rural areas are still mostly "NSA" as far as I know. You might use cellmapper and find out exactly what bands from what carriers are available and how far from the tower and which directions the signal path is taking. If you have questions on this you might start another thread as keeping it here may get overlooked since the topic is about sim not inserted.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by Didneywhorl »

AlteredLogic wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 9:12 am...should be no problems refunding the money for it, even half of it, ...
I think I mis-understood this to mean full refund. :| My apologies...

There is NOTHING in the returns policy that says you can't negotiate the terms of the refund on a returned system. It just says no 100% refunds for "non-defective" purchases. There is ZERO harm in asking a reasonable "restocking" fee to cover the difference between selling the new item and reselling a returned used item. Custom or not. Devils in the details. ;)

Technically it says not explicit extended warranty on custom modified systems, though that's more of a CYA for extreme cases I'm certain, it doesn't say no returns. ;)
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

Well said, I originally was talking about a full refund, I don't think a full refund should be an issue but I do believe if they can't do that then there should be some sort of return, if not full then around half. Interesting, I may have to look into that, I appreciate you letting me know. Indeed, you gotta read the fine print ha ha.
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Re: EM9191: SIM not inserted

Post by AlteredLogic »

mtl26637 wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 10:24 am Hey AlteredLogic,

This thread has bounced around quite a bit. I understand that is a lot of money. What you might try to do is do some serious research on what signals are available with the carriers you have access to. As Didneywhorl suggested, its not all hardware in the end, the available signal is just as important. Depending on your location you may not have access to "SA" only, I know I don't. Rural areas are still mostly "NSA" as far as I know. You might use cellmapper and find out exactly what bands from what carriers are available and how far from the tower and which directions the signal path is taking. If you have questions on this you might start another thread as keeping it here may get overlooked since the topic is about sim not inserted.
Hello, my apologies, I did take over this topic ha ha my bad. I have basically done the research with cellmapper and just came to the conclusion I need to actually test it and see. I've been looking for a cost effective way to do that but didn't find any other than getting a 5g hotspot from tmobile but the signal more than likely won't be as good as the wireless haven all in one bundle so I didn't think it would answer my questions. As far as I know there are two towers with 5g close and one of them has SA support, I go onto the tmobile mvno map and it shows I only have signal outdoors for 4g lte and 5g. I also did make another topic shortly after I commented in this one but nobody responded.
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Re: EM9191 and Router Convo

Post by Didneywhorl »

Split this off of the other post, as it went way off track. :)
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